1
 1         IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR CARROLL COUNTY
 2                         MARYLAND
 3   ----------------------------------------------------
 4   MICHAEL D. SMIGIEL, SR.,
 5   et al.,
 6                   Plaintiffs,
 7   v.               Case No.:  06-C-07-0496648
 8   PETER FRANCHOT,
 9   et al.
10                  Defendants.
11   Case No.  06-C-07-049648
12   ----------------------------------------------------
13   
14                DEPOSITION OF MARY MONAHAN
15                   Annapolis, Maryland
16                Wednesday, January 2, 2007
17                        10:17 a.m.
18   
19   
20   Job No.:  1-119442
21   Reported by:  Sheri D. Hayhurst Smith
22   Pages:  1 - 194

                                                               2
 1             Deposition of MARY MONAHAN, held at the
 2   Offices of:
 3             COUNSEL TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
 4                       90 State Circle
 5             Annapolis, Maryland  21401
 6   
 7   
 8   
 9   
10   
11   
12   
13   
14   
15   
16   
17   
18   
19   
20   Pursuant to Notice, before Sheri D. Hayhurst Smith,
21   Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public
22   in and for the State of Maryland.

                                                               3
 1   
 2                  A P P E A R A N C E S
 3                       ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS:
 4             IRWIN R. KRAMER, ESQUIRE
                         KRAMER & CONNOLLY
 5             500 Redland Court
               Suite 211
 6                       Owings Mills, Maryland  21117
               (410) 581-0070
 7   
               ON BEHALF OF THE HOUSE OF DELEGATES, MARY
 8                       MONAHAN, STATE OF MARYLAND:
 9             DAVID MOORE, ESQUIRE
               GARY W. KUC, ESQUIRE
10             OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
               CIVIL LITIGATION DIVISION
11             200 St. Paul Place
               Baltimore, Maryland  21202
12                       (410) 576-6318
13             ON BEHALF OF THE STATE OF MARYLAND:
14                       ROBERT A. ZARNOCH, ESQUIRE
               BONNIE KIRKLAND, ESQUIRE
15             ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL
               LEGISLATIVE SERVICES BUILDING
16             90 State Circle
               Room 104
17             Annapolis, Maryland  21401
               (410) 946-5600
18   
               ON BEHALF OF MARY MONAHAN:
19   
               DAVID R. THOMPSON, ESQUIRE
20             DOWDREY, THOMPSON & KARSTEN
               130 N. Washington Street
21             Easton, Maryland  21601
                         (410) 822-6800
22   

                                                               4
 1                     C O N T E N T S
 2   
 3   EXAMINATION OF MARY MONAHAN            PAGE
 4             By Mr. Kramer                   7
 5                       By Mr. Thompson            164
 6                       By Mr. Moore                 172
 7                       By Mr. Kramer                177
 8             By Mr. Moore                 190
 9   PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS:  (Attached)
10   Exhibit No. Z - Message from Chief Executive
11   Exhibit No. FF - Message to the Senate
12   Exhibit No. Y - House Journal for Proceedings 5
13   Exhibit No. X - House Journal for Proceedings 6
14   Defendant's No. 4 - House Journal for Proceedings 8
15   
16   
17   
18   
19   
20   
21   
22   

                                                               5
 1             THE VIDEOGRAPHER:  Here begins videotaped
 2        Number 1 in the deposition of Mary Monahan in the
 3        matter of Michael D. Smigiel, versus -- Sr. --
 4        excuse me -- et al, versus Peter Franchot, et al.,
 5        in the Circuit Court for Carroll County, Maryland,
 6        Case Number 06-C-07049648.
 7        Today's date is January 2nd, 2008.  The time on the
 8   video monitor is 10:17 a.m.  And the video operator today
 9   is Akin Graham.
10        This video deposition is taking place at the Offices
11   of the Counsel to the General Assembly at 90 State Circle
12   in Annapolis, Maryland.
13        Counsel, please voice identify yourselves and state
14   whom you represent?
15             MR. KRAMER:  I'm Irwin Kramer.  I represent
16        the plaintiffs in this action.
17             MR. MOORE:  I'm David Moore, Assistant
18        Attorney General from the Civil Litigation
19        Division of the Maryland Attorney General's
20        Office.  I represent the Clerk of the House of
21        Delegates, Mary Monahan.
22             MR. KUC:  My name is Gary Kuc, and I

                                                               6
 1        represent the State of Maryland.
 2             MR. ZARNOCH:  My name is Robert Zarnoch, and
 3        I represent the State of Maryland.
 4             MS. KIRKLAND:  My name is Bonnie Kirkland,
 5        and I with the Attorney General's Office,
 6        representing the State of Maryland.
 7             MR. THOMPSON:  My name is David Thompson, and
 8        I represent Mrs. Monahan in her individual
 9        capacity.
10             THE VIDEOGRAPHER:  The court reporter today
11        is Sheri Hayhurst of LAD Reporting Company.
12             MR. KRAMER:  One moment.  We have some other
13        attendees --
14             MR. WARD:  My name is John Ward.  I'm a law
15        clerk with the Office of the Attorney General.
16             MR. COHEE:  My name is Thomas Cohee.  I'm
17        Mary Monahan's husband.
18             MR. O'DONNELL:  My name is Anthony O'Donnell.
19        I'm a plaintiff in the case.
20             MR. SMIGIEL:  Michael D. Smigiel, Sr.  I'm a
21        plaintiff in the case.
22             THE VIDEOGRAPHER:  The court reporter today

                                                               7
 1        is Sheri Hayhurst of LAD Reporting Company.  Would
 2        the reporter please swear in the witness?
 3             THE COURT REPORTER:  Raise your right hand,
 4        please.  Do you solemnly swear that the testimony
 5        you're about to give will be the truth, the whole
 6        truth, and nothing but the truth?
 7             THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 8                       EXAMINATION
 9   BY MR. KRAMER:
10        Q    Good morning, Ms. Monahan.
11        A    Good morning.
12        Q    My name is Irwin Kramer.  I'm representing
13   the plaintiffs in this case, and it's my job this
14   morning to ask you several questions pertaining to
15   the claims and defenses raised in the course of this
16   litigation.
17        If at any time you do not understand a question that
18   I ask, will you please tell me, so that before answering
19   each question, we can be sure that you fully understand
20   it?
21        A    Uh-huh.
22        Q    Is that yes for the roared?

                                                               8
 1        A    Yes for the record.
 2        Q    It's also important that all of your
 3   responses be verbal as opposed to a nonverbal
 4   response because we're typing everything you have to
 5   say, okay?
 6        A    Yes.
 7        Q    And it's important in answering any
 8   question that you not speculate or guess as to the
 9   answer.  If you don't know an answer or don't
10   remember, will you tell the me that as well?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    And if you need to take a break, just let
13   us know, and we'll take a break for you, okay?
14        A    Yes.
15        Q    What is your full legal name?
16        A    Mary Kathryn, with a K-A-T-H-R-Y-N,
17   Monahan.
18        Q    And you are married?
19        A    Yes, I am.
20        Q    To whom?
21        A    Thomas R. Cohee, C-O-H-E-E.
22        Q    Where do you reside?

                                                               9
 1             MR. MOORE:  Counsel, is there a reason to not
 2        just give her professional address?
 3             MR. THOMPSON:  No.  There's no reason.
 4             MR. KRAMER:  I have no problem with that.
 5   BY MR. KRAMER:
 6        Q    What is your work address?
 7        A    104 State House, Annapolis, Maryland,
 8   21401.
 9        Q    Where did you attend college?
10        A    Columbus, Ohio, Capital University.
11        Q    And did you graduate?
12        A    No.
13        Q    How much college did you complete?
14        A    One plus years.
15        Q    And then what was your course of study?
16        A    General.
17        Q    General studies?
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    Did you receive any other formal education
20   or training?
21        A    I don't understand.  College wise?
22        Q    Well, did you attend any other colleges

                                                              10
 1   than Capital?
 2        A    No.
 3        Q    Did you hold any professional licenses?
 4        A    Notary?  Is that a license?
 5        Q    Okay.  Beyond notary public?
 6        A    No.
 7        Q    What was your first full-time job?  Well
 8   when did you attend Capital -- I'm sorry --
 9   approximately?
10        A    1965.
11        Q    Did you go there out of high school?
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    And after leaving Capital, what did you do
14   professionally?
15        A    I worked for an insurance company.
16        Q    Which one?
17        A    I have no recollection.
18        Q    When did you start with them?
19        A    1966.
20        Q    And how long did you work there?
21        A    I don't recall.
22        Q    A year or more?  Less than a year?

                                                              11
 1        A    I don't know.  I don't recall.
 2        Q    Well, just trying to get your background.
 3    What was the next position that you held?
 4        A    Research assistant at Jons Hopkins
 5   University.
 6        Q    And can you tell me approximately when you
 7   were in that position?
 8        A    In the late 60's.
 9        Q    For about how long?
10        A    Until the grant ran out.
11        Q    Okay.  What was your research entailing?
12        A    Interorganizational relationships.
13        Q    And after the grant ran out, what did you
14   do?
15        A    Went back to an insurance company.
16        Q    Do you recall the name?
17        A    No.
18        Q    What was your role at the insurance
19   company?
20        A    I don't remember.
21        Q    Do you remember how long you were with the
22   insurance company?

                                                              12
 1        A    Until 1972.
 2        Q    So, for a period of approximately how many
 3   years?
 4        A    I don't know.  This is a long time ago.
 5        Q    And you don't remember the name of your
 6   employer?
 7        A    No.
 8        Q    And you don't recall what your role was,
 9   what your duties were?
10        A    I believe I was a claims adjustor, but I'm
11   not certain.
12        Q    Well, can you just describe generally what
13   you did?
14        A    No.
15        Q    Why not?
16        A    I don't recall.
17        Q    And then what did you do?
18        A    Then I started working for the Chief
19   Clerk's Office.
20        Q    In what year?
21        A    In 1972.
22        Q    And that would be the Chief Clerk for the

                                                              13
 1   House of Delegates in Maryland?
 2        A    Yes.
 3        Q    What was your initial position with the
 4   office?
 5        A    Clerk to the chief clerk.
 6        Q    And what were your initial
 7   responsibilities?  And if you, in your own words,
 8   could just describe the evolution of your career
 9   with that office?
10             MR. MOORE:  Which question do you want her to
11        answer first?
12             MR. KRAMER:  All right.  That's fine.  We can
13        do it question by question, Mr. Moore.
14   BY MR. KRAMER:
15        Q    What was your initial title?  Well, you
16   said clerk and an assistant to the chief clerk; is
17   that correct?
18        A    I was a clerk to the chief clerk.
19        Q    What were your responsibilities?
20        A    Whatever I was told to do in that office.
21        Q    And can you give us some examples of what
22   that entailed?

                                                              14
 1        A    Boy, that's a hard question to answer.
 2        Q    Take your time.
 3        A    We, at that point, had these huge ledgers
 4   like this, (indicating).  One was an alphabetical
 5   ledger.  One was a numeric ledger.  And we recorded
 6   each and everything and every step about every piece
 7   of legislation that went through the House of
 8   Delegates.  Every time a bill was checked out to the
 9   printer, it was checked out to the Senate, it was
10   checked out to wherever, it would be recorded in the
11   ledger.  So, you could follow along to make sure
12   that each bill, House bill or Senate bill, was
13   constitutionally correct with three readings on
14   three different days.  We kept the original bills in
15   our safe in the office.  We created all the
16   calendars, the agendas.  We were the official
17   recordkeepers of the house, keeping a daily journal.
18   And at that time, we were the only people with
19   legislative information.  So, our office was called
20   a lot concerning these pieces of legislation.
21        Q    Was there a Department of Legislative
22   Services back then?

                                                              15
 1        A    It was Legislative Reference.
 2        Q    And when you came into the office for the
 3   first time, did you receive any type of training in
 4   connection, other than on-the-job training?
 5        A    No.
 6        Q    And did there come a time when your
 7   responsibilities with the office changed or became a
 8   bit more involved?
 9        A    Almost immediately.
10        Q    In what way?
11        A    I had ideas of how to streamline and
12   simplify things.  And the acting chief clerk
13   recognized my abilities to organize.  And
14   immediately I was put on the front desk, which was
15   unheard of at that point.  And I would document
16   legislation.
17        Q    From the floor of the house?
18        A    Uh-huh.
19        Q    Is that yes for the record?
20        A    Yes.  I'm sorry.  Yes.
21        Q    And who was the acting chief clerk at the
22   time?

                                                              16
 1        A    Jacqueline M. Spell.
 2        Q    Can you spell Spell?
 3        A    S-P-E-L-L.  The real chief clerk was
 4   Mr. James P. Moss, and he was paralyzed on the sine
 5   die the year before I got there.
 6        Q    And how long were you in that position --
 7   that is as a clerk on the floor of -- or shall I put
 8   it this way.  Did there come a time when you were
 9   promoted?
10        A    I was made journal clerk in 1981.
11        Q    What does a journal clerk do?
12        A    Records the actions on the floor of the
13   house.
14        Q    And records it where?
15        A    At that point, it was before computers.
16   It was calendars, actual bills, bill titles.  I had
17   motion stamps.
18        Q    Let me ask you as an aside.  The advent of
19   computers, I'm sure, changed the way the Clerk's
20   Office worked as it does just about every office in
21   this country.
22        In what way did it change the keeping of the records

                                                              17
 1   for the House of Delegates?
 2        A    It made it easy for the public and the
 3   legislatures to follow legislation and procedure.
 4   It actually made it a lot more hectic for the
 5   Clerk's Office.
 6        Q    In what way?
 7        A    Ledgers were very easy.  You could follow
 8   the flow.  Computer people wrote all the programs.
 9   And if you forget a step, it's hard to undo it.
10   It's just -- the old days were easier.
11             MR. THOMPSON:  Let the record reflect the
12        room agreed.
13             THE WITNESS:  Yeah.
14   BY MR. KRAMER:
15        Q    And how long were you in the position of
16   journal clerk?
17        A    One year.
18        Q    Then what?
19        A    Then I resigned.  Two or three years.
20        Q    And when was that that you had resigned?
21        A    Well, it had to be 82.  And I think I
22   was -- I'm not sure.

                                                              18
 1        Q    But early 80's?
 2        A    Yeah.
 3        Q    And for what reason?
 4        A    My first husband.
 5        Q    Did not want you to work the job or --
 6        A    Correct.
 7        Q    And after resigning, did you take any
 8   other job or just what did you do?
 9        A    Oh, I had a mulch and composting company
10   that I ran.
11        Q    What was that called?
12        A    William and Mary Enterprises.
13        Q    How long did you do that for?
14        A    Until 85, I think.
15        Q    And in 85, what happened?
16        A    I left my husband.
17        Q    What was his name?
18        A    His name was -- he is now deceased --
19   William Eaton Perryclear.
20        Q    And after leaving your husband, what did
21   you do professionally?
22        A    Came back to the Clerk's Office.

                                                              19
 1        Q    Do you recall when that was?
 2        A    First available second I could get here.
 3        Q    I take it you like your job?
 4        A    I love my job.
 5        Q    What do you like about it most?
 6        A    I love organization.  I'm very good at
 7   organizing and scheduling.  I do believe I have a
 8   gift, and I love process.
 9        Q    And when you returned to this process,
10   what was your position at that time?
11        A    Clerk for the chief clerk.
12        Q    And what were your responsibilities upon
13   returning?
14        A    Everything I had done prior.
15        Q    Did there come a point where your
16   responsibilities changed?
17        A    In 1992.
18        Q    What happened then?
19        A    I was appointed chief clerk.
20        Q    Who appointed you chief clerk?
21        A    Speaker Clay Mitchell.
22        Q    And can you tell me what the appointment

                                                              20
 1   process is?  How does one become chief clerk for the
 2   House of Delegates?  You might not want to tell
 3   potential competitors.  But how does that happen?
 4        A    You apply for a job, give your resume to
 5   the speaker, and you do lobbying with the speaker.
 6        Q    Can you describe the responsibilities of
 7   the Chief Clerk?
 8        A    There are a lot.
 9        Q    Take your time.  I figured this will be a
10   long answer.
11        A    The main job of the chief clerk is to make
12   sure that legislation is constitutional.  That is
13   the major thing.  That is the thing, and you're the
14   recordkeeper.  It's just an awesome responsibility.
15        Q    Have you, in connection with exercising
16   those responsibilities, had any type of formal
17   training, workshops, things of that kind?
18        A    Absolutely.
19        Q    And can you tell me what they were and
20   approximately when?  I'll let you do it at your
21   pace, but just to get an idea.
22        A    NCSL, National Conference of State

                                                              21
 1   Legislatures, have staff sessions.  ASLCS is
 2   American Society of Legislative Clerks and
 3   Secretaries, which is the staff section that
 4   actually started NCSL.  We were the beginners
 5   because we were interested in the Mason's Manual and
 6   that kind of thing.
 7        And every year, they have a professional development
 8   seminar.  Actually, Maryland hosted it in 2004, I
 9   believe.  We have guest speakers.  We have concurrent
10   sessions, and my favorite one is always on parliamentary
11   procedures.  It gets quite entertaining.  It's a
12   seven-day long workshop, and it's awesome, because the
13   clerks of the house and the secretaries of the Senate are
14   a very small and unique group.  And when we have
15   questions, I have 100 other people that I can e-mail, and
16   they'll e-mail me right back.  No one else knows exactly
17   what it's like to be a clerk, and the networking there is
18   awesome.
19        Q    I understand you're on the board of that
20   organization; is that correct?
21        A    Uh-huh.
22        Q    And what is your title of the

                                                              22
 1   organization?
 2        A    I'm an appointed member of the executive
 3   committee, which is quite an honor.
 4        Q    And how long have you been there?
 5        A    Since this fall.
 6        Q    And how did you achieve that status?
 7        A    The president -- the newly elected
 8   president of ASLCS called me and asked if I would
 9   consider.  And it requires travel.  So, I asked the
10   speaker if I could travel to go to the different
11   meetings, and he said, "Absolutely.  It's quite an
12   honor for Maryland."
13        Q    You mentioned two chief responsibilities
14   of the chief clerk?
15        A    Uh-huh.
16        Q    The first you mentioned was to make sure
17   legislation was Constitutional?
18        A    Uh-huh.
19        Q    How do you do that?
20        A    The one thing that you have to remember is
21   three days, three readings on three days.  And
22   that's the biggest thing.  And it's so easy to slip

                                                              23
 1   up at the end especially, but we make sure that we
 2   don't.
 3        Q    So, if legislatures themselves may forget
 4   their place in line, it's your job to remind them;
 5   is that right?
 6        A    I don't understand.
 7        Q    In other words -- I'm sorry.  Well, let me
 8   put it this way if, I understand your testimony
 9   right.  Basically, you're there as the Chief Clerk,
10   and your office is there to ensure that the
11   constitutional procedures are followed; is that
12   correct?
13        A    In regards to three readings, on a bill in
14   the house, and, also, when the Senate sends me a
15   bill, I make sure that what they send me is correct.
16        Q    In what way?
17        A    They sometimes have misinformation on the
18   bills.
19        Q    What are some examples of mistakes that
20   you see?
21        A    I don't want to answer that one.
22        Q    Well, I mean we're not talking about any

                                                              24
 1   particular administration now.
 2        A    Oh, administrations don't matter.
 3        Q    Okay.  Well, why don't you want to answer
 4   that?
 5        A    I'd rather have the Secretary of the
 6   Senate answer that.
 7        Q    But, essentially, though, you're reviewing
 8   incoming bills, messages, things of that kind from
 9   the Senate?
10        A    As an example, they may have an amendment
11   to another sent bill that they put adopted and put
12   it inside the bill, and we know that that's not the
13   amendment that was adopted on the floor.  We check
14   everything.
15        Q    And what do you use as a source material
16   to check that?
17        A    Well, if it's Senate Bill 1, and you have
18   an amendment for Senate Bill 17, you know something
19   is wrong.
20        Q    And do you review the Senate Journal to
21   verify that?
22        A    No.

                                                              25
 1        Q    What do you use?
 2        A    We also write the ID numbers of any
 3   amendment on the actual bill itself so that there is
 4   say a floor amendment by Delegate Smigiel, he will
 5   call out the amendment ID number to me.  So, I make
 6   sure that I have the right amendment in front of me.
 7   If that amendment is adopted, that amendment number
 8   is written on the original bill in my handwriting or
 9   whoever I have endorsing the bills.
10        Q    Is it part of your responsibility to be
11   aware of a constitutional requirements for the
12   legislative process?
13        A    As regards to first, second and third
14   readings, yes.
15        Q    Are there any other constitutional
16   provisions that you familiarized yourself with
17   during the course of your tenure with the Clerk's
18   Office?
19        A    Oh, I looked at the constitution many
20   times with different questions.
21        Q    So, beyond the requirement for three
22   readings on three separate days of a bill before it

                                                              26
 1   can be enacted, you have had, if I understand
 2   correctly, occasion to refer to other Constitutional
 3   provisions?
 4        A    Correct.
 5        Q    What types of issues have generally arisen
 6   during the course of your tenure?  And, obviously,
 7   you can't give an exhausted list, but if you can
 8   give us some idea.
 9        A    I have a feeling --
10             THE WITNESS:  Do you remember any?
11             MR. KRAMER:  It's your deposition, ma'am.
12             MR. THOMPSON:  With a little bit of luck,
13        they'll get there, too.
14             MR. KRAMER:  I try not to let him talk.
15             MR. MOORE:  And you're Delegate Smigiel for
16        the record?
17             MR. KRAMER:  That's right.
18             THE WITNESS:  Off the top of my head, no.  I
19        don't remember.
20   BY MR. KRAMER:
21        Q    Okay.  And you indicated that the other
22   main function is to keep the record?

                                                              27
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    And the record would be the journal?  Or
 3   are there other aspects to what the record is?
 4        A    Our official clerk's log, which is a
 5   computer now, which used to be the ledger.
 6        Q    And what type of information is on the
 7   official clerk's log?
 8        A    Every action we do in the Clerk's Office.
 9        Q    Examples?
10        A    Bill, numbers, sponsors, committee
11   assignments, when a bill was returned from the
12   printer, first reading sent to a committee, what
13   committee, who signed for it, all kinds of receipts,
14   making sure that bills are printed in a timely
15   fashion.  It's just a record of every aspect of what
16   we do.
17        Q    So, basically, a record of what happens
18   internally within your office, correct?
19        A    Yes.  And externally.
20        Q    In what way?
21        A    It would say, "favorable with amendments
22   from appropriations committee."  So, that's a

                                                              28
 1   committee action.  And then we would take that up
 2   that committee report, and then we would do floor
 3   action on that bill, and that would also become part
 4   of my clerk's log.
 5        Q    How does the clerk's log differ from the
 6   journal of the House?
 7        A    Because it has receipts.  It has receipt
 8   numbers.  It's more the inner workings of  the
 9   office.  The journal is only floor action or what is
10   happening.
11        Q    What is happening where?
12        A    In the house.  The clerk's log is a record
13   of what happened to each and every bill from the
14   time the delegate dropped it off in the hopper until
15   we send it to governor.  It's everything.
16        Q    Are messages from the other House or
17   messages sent to the other House noted somewhere on
18   that log?
19        A    No.
20        Q    Is there any record within the Clerk's
21   Office of when certain messages were received in
22   terms of date and time?

                                                              29
 1        A    No.
 2        Q    What record would provide that
 3   information?
 4        A    None that I know of.
 5        Q    It's my understanding that part of your
 6   responsibility is that you have the authority to
 7   convey all messages and receive all messages?
 8        A    Correct.
 9        Q    And messages are what?
10        A    Messages.
11        Q    Are you talking between houses, I assume?
12        A    Not necessarily.  It could be messages
13   from the governor for a veto or from -- you know,
14   not necessarily just for the Senate.
15        Q    Well, messages -- sort of an official
16   message we're talking about obviously; am I correct?
17        A    Well, you can get an official message from
18   the governor and from the Senate.
19        Q    Are there any other institutions or bodies
20   or entities that provide messages?
21        A    Not that I can think of per se.
22        Q    And what are your responsibilities

                                                              30
 1   regarding messages?  In other words what --
 2        A    I put them in the journal.
 3        Q    What rules or legal authorities govern the
 4   process that you need to manage in the house?
 5        A    The House Rule Book.
 6        Q    Beyond that, are there any other
 7   references that you use?
 8        A    Mason's Manual.
 9        Q    That's the Mason's Manual of Legislative
10   Procedure?
11        A    Uh-huh.
12        Q    Is that yes for the record?
13        A    Let me see that.
14        Q    This might be an old copy.  Is that what
15   it looks like?
16        A    Yes.
17        Q    If I'm correct, Mason's Manual of
18   Legislative Procedure was adopted by the House
19   Rules; is that correct?  In other words, the House
20   Rules refer to that?
21        A    I don't know.
22        Q    What does the Mason's Manual provide that

                                                              31
 1   the House Rules don't?
 2        A    If the House Rules do not specifically
 3   address an issue, the next step you do is to read
 4   Mason's and see if there is anything that would
 5   address whatever issue is in front of you.
 6        Q    And in addition, another source that you
 7   indicated you referred to is the Constitution of
 8   Maryland, correct?
 9        A    Not that often.
10        Q    How often would you say during the course
11   of your responsibilities, in an average session,
12   would you refer to the constitution?
13        A    Probably once or twice.
14        Q    Are you familiar with Article 3, Section
15   25, The Adjournment Rules?
16        A    I'm familiar with it.
17        Q    In what way?
18        A    I've read it.
19        Q    Let me back up and ask have you ever had
20   your deposition taken before?
21        A    I think once with William and Mary
22   Enterprises, and that was a long time ago.

                                                              32
 1        Q    And have you ever been called to testify
 2   in court?
 3        A    No.
 4        Q    How, if at all, did you prepare for this
 5   deposition?
 6        A    What do you mean?
 7        Q    Well, did you do anything to refresh your
 8   recollection on facts, that type of thing?
 9        A    Not really.
10        Q    Did you read any pleadings or motions?
11        A    Not really.
12        Q    When you say "not really," what do you
13   mean?
14        A    I just glanced at whatever this is.
15        Q    You glanced at a book of exhibits?
16        A    All right.  Let me see what that is.   I
17   guess the initial pleadings or whatever when you
18   filed that.
19        Q    The complaint for declaratory judgment and
20   injunctive relief?
21        A    I don't know if that's what it's called.
22        Q    Basically, the lawsuit is something that

                                                              33
 1   you have reviewed?
 2        A    I have not reviewed it.  I glanced at it.
 3        Q    Have you read any briefs --
 4        A    No.
 5        Q    Prior to coming here today, did you meet
 6   about the case with the Attorney General?
 7        A    Not the Attorney General.
 8        Q    Or any of his assistants?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    Who?
11        A    I don't remember names.  Give me a bill
12   number, and I'll remember it forever.
13        Q    David Moore, perhaps?
14        A    David.
15        Q    Gary Kuc?
16        A    Bob Zarnoch, Bonnie.
17        Q    And how many times did you have meetings
18   with these individuals?
19        A    Once, once, a couple of times.
20        Q    Well, once with Mr. Moore?
21        A    Once with Mr. Moore.
22        Q    Twice with whom?

                                                              34
 1        A    Twice with Bonnie.
 2        Q    And when was your first meeting with the
 3   Attorney General or the Attorney General's staff, I
 4   should say?
 5             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  You mean --
 6             MR. KRAMER:  When was it?
 7             MR. MOORE:  In reference to?
 8   BY MR. KRAMER:
 9        Q    The first meeting in connection with this
10   matter.  The question comes in the context of
11   preparing for your deposition.
12        When was the first meeting you had with any of these
13   individuals in connection with this case?
14             MR. MOORE:  I'm sorry.  By this case, you
15        mean the lawsuit itself?
16             MR. KRAMER:  I mean the case of Michael D.
17        Smigiel, Sr.,. et al. versus Peter Franchot,
18        et al.
19             MR. MOORE:  Okay.  Thank you.
20             THE WITNESS:  I don't know.
21   BY MR. KRAMER:
22        Q    You don't know what?

                                                              35
 1        A    I don't know what you're asking.
 2        Q    When was the first time you met about
 3   anything relating to this case with any individual
 4   working at the Attorney General's Office?
 5             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  As to what you mean
 6        by relating to?
 7             MR. KRAMER:  Okay.
 8             MR. MOORE:  I'm just trying to understand the
 9        question.
10             MR. KRAMER:  All right.
11   BY MR. KRAMER:
12        Q    After the lawsuit was filed in the case of
13   Smigiel v. Franchot --
14        A    Right.
15        Q    -- did you meet with representatives of
16   the Attorney General's Office?
17        A    I don't know if it was before or after.  I
18   don't know when your case was filed.
19        Q    The lawsuit was filed on December the
20   14th.  From and after December 14th until now, have
21   you met with the Attorney's General's Office?
22        A    Today.  And I don't know when the other

                                                              36
 1   time was, but it was only once.
 2        Q    Was it within the last two weeks?
 3        A    No.
 4        Q    And how long did you meet today?
 5        A    A little over an hour.
 6        Q    What did you discuss?
 7             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 8             MR. KRAMER:  Basis?
 9             MR. MOORE:  You're asking her what
10        discussions she's had with her attorney?
11             MR. KRAMER:  Actually, her attorney is -- I'm
12        glad you raised that, because I understood that
13        Mr. Thompson was her attorney.
14             MR. THOMPSON:  Actually, as we identified
15        ourselves -- this is Dave Thompson speaking for
16        the record -- I represent Ms. Monahan in her
17        individual capacity.  The Attorney's General's
18        Office, I believe, represents her in her official
19        capacity.
20             MR. KRAMER:  Well, that's good.  I just want
21        the individual to talk for now.
22             MR. THOMPSON:  I will tell you that

                                                              37
 1        individual -- well, go ahead.  I'm sorry.  Ask her
 2        questions.
 3             MR. KRAMER:  Yeah.  So, I'm asking the
 4        individual, who is testifying today, what did the
 5        Attorney General discuss with you.
 6             MR. MOORE:  Before -- you can go ahead,
 7        Counsel.
 8             MR. THOMPSON:  We can put our objections on
 9        the record serially.  As you know, Mr. Kramer,
10        there is an attorney/client privilege, and
11        Ms. Monahan has two sets of attorneys.  And I am
12        not going to allow questioning in answers to
13        invade the privilege between Mrs. Monahan and her
14        individual counsel; nor do I believe it is
15        appropriate for the questioning to invade a
16        relationship with the Attorney General as her
17        counsel in an official capacity.
18             MR. KRAMER:  I'm a little confused, Counsel.
19        What does it mean there you're representing her in
20        her official capacity?  I just want to try to
21        understand your assertion of privilege here.
22             MR. MOORE:  Counsel, is this a discussion you

                                                              38
 1        really want to hold on the record?
 2             MR. KRAMER:  Yes, it is.
 3             MR. MOORE:  The Attorney General of Maryland
 4        represents the Clerk of the House of Delegates.
 5        I'm not sure if I understand your question.  Just
 6        as you represent Delegate Smigiel, and we would
 7        not ask you -- or we would not ask Delegate
 8        Smigiel the content of any conversations he may
 9        have had with you as his counsel.
10        It's inappropriate, as you know, to ask Ms. Monahan,
11   who is the clerk of the House of Delegates, what
12   conversations she may have had -- the content of any
13   conversations she may have had with the Attorneys
14   General's Office in reference to this lawsuit.
15             MR. KRAMER:  Well, I don't believe that
16        giving a deposition today, Ms. Monahan is
17        performing a function of the Clerk's Office.
18        She's here pursuant to a duty to testify.
19             MR. MOORE:  I respectfully disagree.
20   BY MR. KRAMER:
21        Q    Well, let me ask it this way, Ms. Monahan.
22   How does your office and its functions -- which you

                                                              39
 1   indicated are to make sure legislation is
 2   constitutional and to keep the record of the house.
 3   How is that furthered by today's deposition?
 4             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 5        Q    You may answer.
 6        A    I don't know what you're asking.
 7        Q    Does today's deposition assist you in any
 8   way in conducting the affairs and duties of the
 9   Clerk's Office?
10             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
11        Q    You may answer.
12        A    I still don't really understand your
13   question.
14        Q    Well, I don't understand your alleged
15   counsel's objection.
16             MR. MOORE:  Counsel, if you could confine
17        your remarks to questions to the witness.
18   BY MR. KRAMER:
19        Q    Well, what don't you understand about the
20   question.
21        A    What was your question again?
22   

                                                              40
 1             MR. KRAMER:  May we read it back, Madam
 2        Reporter?
 3        (Question read back).
 4             MR. KRAMER:  Thanks anyways.
 5             MR. THOMPSON:  No one understood the
 6        question, even the court reporter.
 7             MR. KRAMER:  Thank you, Mr. Thompson.
 8   BY MR. KRAMER:
 9        Q    You testified that the job of the Chief
10   Clerk in your official capacity is twofold, to make
11   sure legislation is constitutional and to keep the
12   record; is that correct?
13        A    Constitutional in the manner that first,
14   second and third readings are on different days.
15        Q    And, certainly, this deposition does not
16   pertain to that, correct?  In other words, you're
17   not performing that function right now as you're
18   speaking; is that correct?
19             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
20        Q    Is that correct?
21        A    It's part of my job, I guess.
22        Q    I understand that.  But right now --

                                                              41
 1        A    Right now, I'm here as a chief clerk of
 2   the Maryland House of Delegates.
 3        Q    Well, I know you're the chief clerk of the
 4   Maryland House of Delegates, but are you working one
 5   of these functions as we speak right now?
 6             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 7        A    I am the chief clerk of the House, and I
 8   am here because I am the chief clerk of the House.
 9   And, yes, this is part of what I'm required to do.
10        Q    Thank you.  But my question was are you,
11   right now as you're speaking, as you're testifying
12   here in this deposition, performing a function of
13   the Clerk's Office?
14             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
15             MR. KRAMER:  It hasn't been answered.
16             THE WITNESS:  Yes.
17   BY MR. KRAMER:
18        Q    In what way?
19        A    I'm am the clerk of the House.
20        Q    I know what your job title is, but are you
21   performing a function of the Clerk's Office right
22   now?

                                                              42
 1             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Mr. Kramer, how many
 2        times do you intend to ask her the same question?
 3             MR. KRAMER:  Until I get an answer.
 4             MR. MOORE:  You've received your answer.
 5             MR. THOMPSON:  You've had your answer, sir.
 6             MR. KRAMER:  You're instructing her not to
 7        answer the question?
 8             MR. THOMPSON:  No.  I've told you she's
 9        answered your question.  Repeating it does not
10        advance this cause.  I've heard the answer three
11        or four times.  My suggestion to you would be that
12        you move on.  The answer was yes.  Now, would you
13        move on?
14   BY MR. KRAMER:
15        Q    The answer is yes?  And in what way then?
16             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
17        A    I'm here in my official capacity.
18        Q    What does that mean?  What do you mean
19   when you say you're here in your official capacity?
20        A    As a recordkeeper of the house.
21        Q    So, right now, you're keeping the record?
22             MR. MOORE:  Objection.

                                                              43
 1        Q    Is that what you're saying?
 2        A    No.
 3        Q    Let's talk about the function of keeping
 4   the record that you testified is the second major
 5   part of the Chief Clerk's responsibilities.
 6        Part of that record beyond the clerk's log is the
 7   House Journal, correct?
 8        A    Correct.
 9        Q    And if I am correct, that is something the
10   constitution requires you to maintain; is that
11   right?
12        A    I don't know that.
13        Q    What type of information goes into the
14   House Journal?
15        A    Joint journals report on the budget,
16   messages from the governor on veto, which, of
17   course, are never read across the desk.  They're
18   just journalized.  You have the rule book.  You have
19   all the role calls.  You have Baltimore City bond
20   resolutions, which are only journalized.  You
21   have -- there's a whole lot of exhibits that we
22   have.  Those are the ones that I can think of right

                                                              44
 1   off the top of my head.
 2        Q    So, that what you mentioned was there are
 3   to two types of matters, bond resolutions and
 4   governor gubernatorial veto messages that are
 5   journalized but not read aloud on the floor; is that
 6   correct?
 7        A    Correct.
 8        Q    Why is it that they are only journalized
 9   but not read?
10        A    I have no idea.  It's tradition.
11        Q    It's just a customary practice?
12        A    Correct.
13        Q    Are there any other such customs to
14   journalize something -- I guess that means put it in
15   the journal book but not actually read it aloud
16   before doing so?
17        A    When we have speeches on the floor, a lot
18   of times people will ask that the remarks of
19   delegate so and so be journalized or the state of
20   the state, we journalize that message or that
21   address -- Lincoln's Day or Washington's Birthday,
22   Martin Luther King Day.  And nine times out of ten,

                                                              45
 1   we never, ever, ever read a sine die message, but
 2   those are put in the journal.  But they're prepared.
 3        Q    So, they are prepared remarks that may
 4   differ perhaps from what's actually performed on the
 5   floor and they're put in?
 6        A    Yes.
 7        Q    Is that right?
 8        A    Yes.
 9        Q    I guess from C-Span, I'm familiar with the
10   old "I ask unanimous consent to advise and extend my
11   remarks."  Is there a practice like that in the
12   House of Delegates?
13        A    Extend your remarks?
14        Q    I'm talking about my only familiarity is
15   with the State Congress.
16        A    We don't put anything in the journal that
17   a delegate would say on the floor, except for the
18   exception of Delegate O'Donnell.
19        Q    And why is Delegate O'Donnell special?
20        A    Well, he is special.
21        Q    I didn't mean it in that way.  But why
22   would you record what he would say as opposed to

                                                              46
 1   what another delegate might say?
 2        A    "The speaker so noted it."
 3        Q    Meaning what?  I didn't follow that.
 4        A    Delegate O'Donnell stood up in the
 5   beginning of a session and stated that he would like
 6   to have recorded his ongoing objections.  I can't
 7   remember exactly how it was worded, but it was put
 8   in the journal.
 9        Q    Are you talking about in connection with
10   the 2007 special session?
11        A    Correct.
12        Q    And the constitutional issue that brings
13   us here?
14        A    Whatever it was, it was put in the
15   journal.  It was noted.
16        Q    That's fine.  Now, another thing I wanted
17   to follow up on.  You mentioned about Lincoln's Day,
18   Washington's Birthday, and I guess it is sort of
19   consolidated into President's Day?
20        A    No.  The republicans do Lincoln, and the
21   democrats do Washington.
22        Q    Really?

                                                              47
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    Do you know why that is?
 3        A    Yes, I do.  Yes.
 4        Q    The various parties they were from?
 5        A    Uh-huh.
 6        Q    Okay.  Interesting.  And what you were you
 7   saying about that?  I didn't quite catch about what
 8   is not journalized or only journalized but not read
 9   across the desk in connection with those days?
10        A    I don't understand the question.
11        Q    You were saying that something about
12   Lincoln's --
13        A    Oh, a delegate would stand up -- it would
14   usually be the minority leader or a majority
15   leader -- to ask that the delegates' remarks be
16   journalized.
17        Q    But at least in that case, they,
18   themselves, are reading the remarks on the floor?
19   Is that accurate?
20        A    They stand at the podium and give an
21   address to the house.
22        Q    And they ask that that be journalized?

                                                              48
 1        A    They, themselves, do not.  It's usually a
 2   member on the floor, and it's usually the minority
 3   leader or the majority leader.
 4        Q    And is that journalized?
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    Are there any instances in which something
 7   would not be -- oh, let me ask you -- back up.  I'm
 8   new to this process.  So, forgive me.  But there's a
 9   term I've been hearing called whether something is
10   read across the desk.  What does that mean?
11        A    Have you ever attended a session?
12        Q    Yes.  I can't pretend I understood it.
13        A    The desk is a front desk where all the
14   clerks sit.
15        Q    Right.
16        A    Legislation is passed from here to here to
17   here to here to here, and the reading clerk reads it
18   across the desk.  It literally is a very old term.
19        Q    Is there another term called reading
20   across the floor or is that --
21        A    Huh-uh.
22        Q    And are there instance where something --

                                                              49
 1   would any other instances beyond what you testified
 2   to where something would not be read across the desk
 3   in the legislative lingo but would nonetheless be
 4   placed in the journal?
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    What would those be?
 7        A    I've answered.
 8        Q    But beyond what you --
 9        A    There are many, many more things that are
10   journalized, and I -- those are the ones I can
11   remember off the top of my head.
12        Q    Are there any rules that you're familiar
13   with that govern that process of when something
14   should be read, when something should be
15   journalized?
16        A    No.
17        Q    And who determines when something should
18   be journalized versus something -- and not read
19   versus something read and journalized?
20        A    The journal clerk.
21        Q    And who was the journal clerk for the
22   special session of 2007?

                                                              50
 1        A    Sylvia Segert.
 2        Q    And she works under you; is that correct?
 3        A    Yes.
 4        Q    Does she consult with anyone to determine
 5   the appropriate handling of the journal in that
 6   regard?
 7        A    She is extremely good at what she does,
 8   very, very, very good.  I don't need to give her
 9   much direction at all.  She's awesome, and the House
10   is lucky to have her.
11        Q    Do any members of the House, legislatures,
12   have any role in mandating or dictating what would
13   go into the journal, what wouldn't, et cetera?
14        A    No.
15        Q    Is there any procedure by which any member
16   of the house may request that something be
17   journalized but not read?
18        A    I wouldn't know.
19        Q    What do you mean you wouldn't know?
20        A    I don't know what you're asking.
21        Q    If a member of the house were to request
22   that something be placed in the journal that was not

                                                              51
 1   read across the desk --
 2        A    I don't remember that happening.
 3        Q    That's never happened in your tenure?
 4        A    Not that I can recall.
 5        Q    To your recollection, okay.  And as the
 6   Chief Clerk, you are responsible for coordinating
 7   messages to and from the Senate; is that correct?
 8        A    Uh-huh.  Correct.
 9        Q    When the House seeks to send a massage to
10   the Senate, can you tell me how that is arranged and
11   transmitted?  What is the process by which --
12        A    It's very old-fashioned.  We type it on
13   the computer and do a letter and send it across the
14   hall.
15        Q    And who takes it across the hall?
16        A    One of my staff.
17        Q    So, there's not somebody dressed in
18   regalia who has a pillow with the message --
19        A    No.
20        Q    -- and carries it in?
21        A    No.
22        Q    And how long does it typically take for

                                                              52
 1   somebody in your staff to walk it across the hall to
 2   the Senate?
 3        A    30 seconds.
 4        Q    And would you anticipate that that's about
 5   the time it takes the Senate to get a message to the
 6   House?
 7        A    No.  I don't say anything about the
 8   Senate.
 9        Q    And why not?
10        A    They're not as efficient as the House.
11   Sorry.  It's true.
12        Q    In what way are they inefficient?
13        A    I don't want to go into that.  That's not
14   an issue here.  I think we've already answered this
15   before when I gave the example of the wrong
16   amendments inside a bill.
17        Q    Are you aware of any, during the special
18   session of 2007, any problems with transmission or
19   delivery of messages between either House?
20        A    No.
21        Q    When a message is delivered to the House
22   from the Senate, how is that message physically

                                                              53
 1   transported to you?
 2        A    Physically?
 3        Q    By whom?  Is it given to a page?
 4        A    Oh, no.  Nothing is ever given to a page.
 5   Not to a delegate, not to a page, not to anybody.
 6        Q    So, a member of the Senate staff will
 7   actually walk it to your desk; is that correct?
 8        A    Uh-huh.
 9        Q    Yes?
10        A    Yes.
11        Q    What happens to a situation where the
12   Senate is sending a message, and the House is not
13   actually in session on the floor?  What happens to
14   the message at that point?  How is that transmitted?
15        A    I put it in my safe.
16        Q    Where is it delivered to?
17        A    My office in the State House.
18        Q    And once delivered, what do you do with
19   it?
20        A    It depends on what kind of message it is.
21        Q    Okay.  Explain it.
22        A    Well, at the end of session, we have

                                                              54
 1   amendments and messages on -- bills amended in the
 2   opposite House, and messages fly back and forth.
 3   And a lot of times, we will not read the original
 4   message until we have a response from the committee
 5   chairman to say if they concur or will not concur.
 6   And if they will not concur, who the conferees will
 7   be or if they will not recede.  And then I will
 8   read, lot of times, both messages at once.
 9        Q    For efficiency sake?
10        A    Yes.  Because there's thousands of pieces
11   of paper going back and forth.
12        Q    When are messages read in connection with
13   the proceedings?  I would note that they're not read
14   during a role call?
15        A    Oh, no.
16        Q    Won't interrupt a role call or a vote or
17   something of that kind.  Are there other instances?
18        A    The conference committee has the
19   highest -- it can be brought up at any point.  It
20   can interrupt a bill that you're debating on the
21   floor.
22        Q    And who reads it?

                                                              55
 1        A    Who reads what?
 2        Q    Who reads the message typically?
 3        A    The reading clerk.
 4        Q    And who is that during the special
 5   sessions of 2007?
 6        A    C. Rhodes Whitehill.
 7        Q    When a message is sent, what is the
 8   procedure to preparing the message that the House
 9   would send to the Senate?
10        A    You have so many different kinds of
11   messages.  There are a whole lot of different
12   circumstances.
13        Q    What are some categories of messages?
14        A    The big ones are the bills amended in the
15   opposite house.
16        Q    Aside from those --
17        A    Those are huge.
18        Q    Conference committee reports, things of
19   that kind -- let me say, aside from messages
20   pertaining to bills, where a bill has been sent over
21   for a consideration by the other House, messages
22   that don't involve that, are there procedures for

                                                              56
 1   how they are done?
 2        A    We have messages to and from the Senate
 3   from the state of the state for all the comp and
 4   ceremony things.  We actually do a message that we
 5   never deliver to the governor, telling him that we
 6   have convened and we're awaiting whatever he wants
 7   to tell us.  But that doesn't go anywhere.  And
 8   that's journalized.  And I've been doing that since
 9   as long as I've been there.
10        Q    What about adjournment messages informing
11   the other House that -- informing the Senate say
12   that the house is adjourning, how is that prepared?
13        A    The same way any other message is
14   prepared.
15        Q    I really mean the nuts and bolts here.  In
16   other words, who types it?  How is it done?
17        A    One of my staff.
18        Q    And I notice several messages.  They
19   typically come from the majority leader?
20        A    That's customary.
21        Q    To what extent does the majority leader
22   have a role in the message that seems to bear his

                                                              57
 1   name?
 2        A    None.
 3        Q    They often come by order, Mary Monahan,
 4   Chief Clerk?  What does that mean?  And what is your
 5   role in that?
 6        A    That's just customary.
 7        Q    When a message is sent from House to
 8   Senate, is it read before being sent?
 9        A    Sometimes.  Not necessarily all the time.
10   Oh, no.  On sine die messages, we just pass letters
11   back and forth way before they're read or they're
12   usually not read.
13        Q    That is when they a session --
14        A    Adjourned.
15        Q    -- completely adjourns?
16        A    Uh-huh.
17        Q    But beyond sine die messages, are there
18   any governing principals that you follow or
19   practices that your office follows to determine when
20   something might be sent to the other house but not
21   read across the desk before being sent?
22        A    I don't know what the Senate does.

                                                              58
 1        Q    I'm asking about House procedures.  In
 2   other words, what I'm asking is when the House wants
 3   to send a message to the Senate --
 4        A    Uh-huh.
 5        Q    -- what practices does your office follow
 6   in determining whether that message would be read
 7   across the desk to House members before being
 8   dispatched to the other house?
 9        A    I can't recall.
10        Q    Well, you mentioned that some messages,
11   most -- would it be accurate to say that most
12   messages before being dispatched and sent over
13   across the hall to the Senate --
14        A    No.
15        Q    -- are read?
16        A    No.
17        Q    Are you saying that most are not read?
18        A    There are some that are not read.  And the
19   Senate gets a messages prior to the House taking any
20   action.  That's just a way of speeding up things.
21        Q    But, ultimately, something on that point
22   would be read.  It's just a question of efficiency

                                                              59
 1   and how it is presented?  Is that accurate?
 2        A    I don't know what the Senate does.
 3        Q    I'm talking about the House now, House
 4   procedures.
 5        A    Sometimes -- what was that question again?
 6        Q    All right.  Well, let me back up.  Maybe I
 7   can phrase it in a better way.
 8        You've testified that there are messages that are
 9   sometimes read across the desk before being sent to the
10   Senate.  And then there are messages that might be sent
11   out but not read across the desk --
12        A    Yes.
13        Q    -- to members of the House.  And I'm
14   trying to figure out how the Clerk's Office
15   distinguishes between the two.  In other words, what
16   guidelines you use or customary practices you use to
17   determine one versus the other?
18        A    Customary practice.
19        Q    What in your customary practices helps you
20   determine what would be dispatched to the Senate as
21   a message that would not be read across the desk
22   versus something that would?

                                                              60
 1        A    Years of experience.
 2        Q    Well, help us benefit from your years of
 3   experience by telling us what factors influence the
 4   judgment of whether something would be read before
 5   being sent or not?
 6        A    I can't recall at this point.
 7        Q    Well, we're about to head into another
 8   regular session of the general assembly, correct?
 9        A    Don't remind me.
10        Q    Yes.  It's coming up, what January 9th,
11   right?  Is that correct?
12        A    I'm not sure.
13             MR. MOORE:  Mr. Kramer, just as a matter of
14        courtesy, given we've been going about an hour, at
15        some point, do you want to take a break for like
16        five minutes?
17             MR. KRAMER:  If the witness would like, we
18        can.  Sure.
19             MR. MOORE:  How are you doing?
20             THE WITNESS:  I'm fine.
21             MR. KRAMER:  For anyone else, I'm not adverse
22        to that.

                                                              61
 1             MR. KRAMER:  Now, where was I?
 2        (Question read back).
 3   BY MR. KRAMER:
 4        Q    Now, a session is going to come up, and
 5   there are going to be a plethora of messages between
 6   House and Senate as there always are, correct?
 7        A    Yes.
 8             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 9             MR. KRAMER:  Well, I mean it is a
10        hypothetical but probably one we can bank on,
11        right?
12   BY MR. KRAMER:
13        Q    And, so, it will be your job and the job
14   of your office to determine what messages would be
15   read across the desk and what messages would not?
16   Is that accurate?
17        A    You really need to ask the journal clerk.
18   She really is very good.  She's very concise.
19        Q    Do you know how that judgment is made?
20        A    Years of experience and by reading
21   journals from prior years.
22        Q    Why are some messages read across the

                                                              62
 1   desk?
 2        A    I don't know.
 3        Q    When a message is sent from House to
 4   Senate, is it journalized?
 5        A    Not all the time.
 6        Q    First lets define our terms for those who
 7   may not know all that much about legislative
 8   procedure, and that would therefore help me.
 9        What does it mean to say that something is
10   journalized?
11        A    It's put in the journal.
12        Q    Of the House, correct, in your case?
13        A    If my case, yes.
14        Q    When a message is sent, is it typically --
15   sent to the Senate from the House, is it typically
16   journalized?
17        A    In the House?
18        Q    Yes.
19        A    Our message?
20        Q    Your outgoing message?
21        A    No.  Usually, it's adopted.
22        Q    Is it reflected in the journal as having

                                                              63
 1   been adopted?
 2        A    Yes.
 3        Q    And would I be correct -- and what is the
 4   notation typically used in the journal to reflect
 5   that?
 6        A    Read and adopted.
 7        Q    And that would signify that it has, in
 8   fact, been read to the House members and adopted by
 9   the House members?
10        A    They don't vote on it.
11        Q    Right.  But in other words, they're
12   certainly aware of it going out?  Is that accurate?
13             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
14   BY MR. KRAMER:
15        Q    They hear it.  It's read to them aloud?
16             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
17        Q    Is that correct?  You may answer.
18        A    Yeah.
19        Q    And if a message is not read but sent to
20   the Senate -- well, first off, is there a situation
21   where a message would not be read and adopted but,
22   nonetheless, sent to the Senate and journalized?

                                                              64
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    And what would those situations be?
 3        A    Well, the one I could think of right
 4   offhand is sine die.  That's norm.
 5        Q    Because everybody knows they're going
 6   home?
 7        A    Oh, yeah.  We all know we're going home.
 8        Q    Would a determination to read a message or
 9   not be made independent of the Chief Clerk's Office
10   or without your knowledge?
11        A    Without my knowledge?  Well, the speaker
12   doesn't have to read anything I clear off of my
13   desk.  Everything is in front of him.
14        Q    Right.  But you have a reading clerk?
15        A    Yes.
16        Q    So, the speaker isn't typically the person
17   who reads the message; although I guess he could; is
18   that right?
19        A    No.
20        Q    Who does it?  The reading clerk?
21        A    The reading clerk.
22        Q    So, would a determination to refrain from

                                                              65
 1   reading a message, be made by anyone other than an
 2   official of the Chief Clerk's Office?
 3        A    No.
 4        Q    Does the Speaker of the House, for
 5   example, or House majority leader, do any of those
 6   individuals instruct you as to what to read or what
 7   not to read?
 8        A    It's changed over the years.  Our former
 9   journal clerk put everything in, and I have
10   instructed the current journal clerk to put in
11   factual information and none of the fluff that the
12   former clerk did.
13        Q    Fluff meaning when politicians start
14   talking?
15        A    Uh-huh.  Kind of.
16        Q    But in terms of reading it, would the
17   Speaker or Senate majority leader or any other
18   legislature, for that matter, ever provide
19   instructions to the Chief Clerk's Office as to what
20   to read or what not to read?  Or is that within your
21   office's domain?
22        A    That's a hard one to answer.

                                                              66
 1        Q    Well, explain, if you will.
 2        A    If a journeyman calls me and tells me that
 3   they're working on an issue and they're not ready to
 4   say if they will or will not concur.  That would be
 5   an example.
 6        Q    Of when it would not be read?  Or they
 7   would ask you not to read it?
 8        A    No.  They wouldn't ask me not to read it.
 9   It's just that they're not read.  And I can't read a
10   message from the House until the chairman signs an
11   original House bill or the original Senate bill.
12        Q    Can you -- okay.
13        A    I want them to sign off on what they're
14   telling me to do.
15        Q    Well, let's talk about -- do you have the
16   authority to instruct the journal clerk as to what
17   to put in the journal or what not to?
18        A    Yes.
19        Q    So, this was a person who works for you at
20   your direction?
21        A    She works for 141 members of the House.
22        Q    As do you?

                                                              67
 1        A    Yes.
 2        Q    But under your supervision and under your
 3   instruction?
 4        A    Yes.
 5        Q    Let's talk about incoming messages and how
 6   they're handled.
 7        Are there any instances, to your knowledge, where
 8   the Senate sent a message but it took more than that 30
 9   seconds to get across the hall?
10        A    Of course.
11        Q    What are some examples?
12        A    I don't remember any specifics right now.
13        Q    Do you remember any from the special
14   session of 2007?
15        A    What was the question, please?
16             MR. KRAMER:  Can you read that, Madam
17        Reporter?
18        (Question read back).
19   BY MR. KRAMER:
20        Q    And, obviously -- let me rephrase that,
21   because counsel would probably say it could have
22   taken 32 seconds.  I don't want to get into that.

                                                              68
 1        What I'm asking is are you aware during the special
 2   session of 2007 of instances where there was an unusual
 3   delay in the transmission of a message?
 4        A    No.
 5        Q    Is it typical that if both Houses are in
 6   session on a given day that a message sent by the
 7   Senate would be received in the House the same day?
 8        A    I can't answer for the Senate.
 9        Q    Okay.  Would it be your anticipation that
10   with the House side going to the Senate, that
11   messages would be delivered promptly in the same
12   day?
13        A    There are different days.  There's
14   calendar days.  There are legislative days.  What
15   are you asking?
16        Q    Yeah.  I'm talking calendar days.  The
17   stuff that we --
18        A    Usually.  Not necessarily all of the time.
19        Q    What would account for a -- well, to your
20   knowledge, what's the longest it's ever taken to get
21   a message over to the Senate?
22        A    It's taken a long time sometimes.

                                                              69
 1        Q    Can you help me out with some examples of
 2   that and why?
 3        A    Probably about 16 years ago.  I remember
 4   one going very slow.
 5        Q    How slow?
 6        A    Slow.  Slow.
 7        Q    Can you describe it in terms of hours,
 8   days, months?
 9        A    Slow.
10        Q    Got lost in the mail?
11        A    Yes.  Probably.
12        Q    Well, help he out.  I mean how long did it
13   take for that message that you recall from 16 years
14   ago?
15        A    Probably an hour or two or three or four.
16        Q    So, a matter of hours, right?
17        A    Yes.
18        Q    But basically the same calendar day?
19        A    I don't know about that.  I mean midnight
20   is a new calendar day.
21        Q    That's true.
22        A    Yeah.

                                                              70
 1        Q    Aside from that kind of situation?
 2        A    I don't know what you're asking.
 3        Q    It shouldn't take days to get a message
 4   from one House to another; is that right?
 5        A    It can.
 6        Q    Do you remember an instance where it has?
 7        A    Not specifically.
 8        Q    Now, how is it that you remember that
 9   message from 16 years ago?  What does that involve?
10        A    It was hysterical.  It was actually kind
11   of a joke.
12        Q    What was it?
13             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Relevance.  You can
14        answer.
15        A    It was so many years ago.
16        Q    Right.
17        A    I don't remember what it was.
18        Q    Just that it was funny?
19        A    Yeah.
20        Q    Well, let's talk about incoming messages.
21   When they are read across the desk and journalized,
22   what is the notation that the journal clerk is to

                                                              71
 1   place in the journal about that?
 2        A    I thought I already said that read and
 3   journalized or read and adopted.
 4        Q    Well, read and adopted is outgoing, right?
 5        A    Right.
 6        Q    I'm talking about incoming.
 7        A    Read and journalized.
 8        Q    Read and order journalized; is that
 9   accurate?
10        A    I'd have to look in a journal.
11             MR. KRAMER:  And, Counsel, just for ease, I'm
12        using the same exhibits that we've appended to the
13        first petition, same lettering and everything.
14        I'll show you what we've previously used in this
15        case as Exhibit Z.
16        Counsel, if you're okay with it, I just think it's
17   easier to leave it as the same exhibit that's used.
18             MR. MOORE:  I didn't know that the court
19        reporter had copies, and, therefore, I didn't know
20        whether she would know what you were referencing.
21        I don't care how you label them.
22             MR. KRAMER:  That's fine.  Well, let's just

                                                              72
 1        keep it simple because it's already in the case as
 2        that notation, and we don't have to take time for
 3        the reporter to mark it.
 4   BY MR. KRAMER:
 5        Q    If I may, ma'am, what is Exhibit Z?  It's
 6   excerpts from what?
 7        A    Message from the chief executive,
 8   executive order 01.01.2007.23.
 9        Q    Well, Exhibit Z is from the journal for
10   Monday, October 29th, 2007; is that correct?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    And in the three-page excerpt from that
13   journal, there is reproduced a message to the Senate
14   and a message from the Senate; is that correct?
15   Actually, if I may refer you specifically.
16   Actually, looking at -- sorry -- the second page of
17   Exhibit Z, the message to the Senate dated
18   October 29, 2007, the same date as the journal, what
19   type of message is that?
20        A    "It is the intention of the House of
21   Delegates to adjourn until Friday, November 2nd,
22   Legislative Day October 30th at 10:00 a.m.  If the

                                                              73
 1   Senate desires to adjourn until Friday,
 2   November 2nd, at 10:00 a.m., the House consents."
 3        Q    And was that read across the desk?
 4        A    I believe so.  I'm not sure.  I don't
 5   remember.
 6        Q    Well, how was it logged?
 7        A    It said, "Read and adopted."
 8        Q    And that would mean that it was read to
 9   members of the House?
10        A    I don't know.
11        Q    Isn't that what it typically does mean?
12             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
13        A    I don't remember if it was read or if it
14   was not.
15        Q    But aside from your independent
16   recollection of whether it was read or not, the
17   notation would indicate that it was; is that
18   correct?
19        A    Yes.
20        Q    And what is the next message that's
21   journalized?
22        A    It's a message from the Senate, agreeing

                                                              74
 1   to the adjournment of the House until Friday, and it
 2   is the intention of the Senate to recess until
 3   Friday, November 2nd.
 4        Q    By the notation, was that read across the
 5   desk?
 6        A    According to the notation, yes.  But I'm
 7   not sure if it was.
 8        Q    Would there be any reason to journalize
 9   something as something been read if it had not been
10   read?
11        A    Well, a message like this.
12        Q    Well, if a message was not read on the
13   floor of the House --
14        A    Right.
15        Q    -- would the notation still reflect that
16   it was read?
17        A    Probably.
18        Q    What should the notation reflect?
19        A    If it wasn't read, it should just be
20   journalized, but this pops up on the computer.
21        Q    Okay.  One question.  Do you know why it
22   was necessary in connection with the adjournment

                                                              75
 1   referenced in Exhibit Z for each House to request
 2   the consent of the other?
 3        A    You asked me about that earlier about
 4   article whatever, section whatever, about the three
 5   day.
 6        Q    Yeah.  I'm just asking if you know about
 7   the specific one, why -- we're talking about an
 8   adjournment from the 29th to the 2nd?
 9        A    And what is the question?
10        Q    Do you know why consent was requested?
11             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
12        A    I know why, but I don't think that's
13   relevant.
14        Q    All right.  Well, what's the answer?
15        A    The answer is there were hearings, joint
16   hearings.  The delegates and the senators had to get
17   information.  They had to look at the bills.  They
18   had to listen to testimony, and why would the full
19   Houses meet when there was no floor work to be done.
20   They were really busy listening to testimony day and
21   night.
22        Q    But my question actually pertains to why

                                                              76
 1   they sent a message across to the other house
 2   requesting consent and vice versa.  Do you know why?
 3        A    Yes.
 4        Q    What was the answer?
 5        A    The constitution.
 6             THE VIDEOGRAPHER:  This marks the end of
 7        Volume 1, Tape Number 1 in the deposition is Mary
 8        Monahan.  We're going off the record.  The time is
 9        11:40 a.m.
10        (A brief recess was taken).
11             THE VIDEOGRAPHER:  Back on the record.  Here
12        marks the beginning of Volume 1, Tape Number 2 in
13        the deposition of Mary Monahan.  The time is
14        11:52 a.m.
15   BY MR. KRAMER:
16        Q    Thank you, Ms. Monahan.  This may be
17   stating the obvious, but let me ask you, you are not
18   a legislature?
19        A    No.
20        Q    Your job function does not relate to
21   policy making and law making; is that right?
22             MR. MOORE:  Objection.

                                                              77
 1             MR. KRAMER:  Okay.  I'll rephrase it.  That's
 2        well put, Counsel.  Let me reword that.
 3   BY MR. KRAMER:
 4        Q    You do not render opinions or have any say
 5   in what legislation will or will not be adopted?
 6   Would that be accurate?
 7        A    I'm not political.
 8        Q    You don't get involved in debates on the
 9   substance of legislation; is that correct?
10        A    Correct.
11        Q    You are nonpartisan?
12        A    Correct.
13        Q    You're not an aid -- a legislative aid to
14   any member of the House; is that correct?
15             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
16        A    That's correct.
17        Q    So, your job is to make sure the
18   procedures are adhered to and the record is kept
19   accurate?
20        A    Correct.
21        Q    And that's it?
22        A    Oh, yeah.

                                                              78
 1        Q    Now, I know you've read at least one of
 2   the pleadings in this case, and, certainly, know
 3   what the fuss generally is about.  Would that be
 4   accurate?
 5        A    I really haven't read.  I've just glanced.
 6        Q    Are you familiar with the fact that the
 7   Maryland Senate adjourned on November 9, 2007, a
 8   Friday?
 9        A    Yes.  I'm sorry.  What was the date that
10   you said?
11        Q    November 9, 2007?
12        A    Correct.
13        Q    Which is a Friday; is that correct?
14        A    Uh-huh.
15             MR. MOORE:  And you're speaking calendar day?
16        Just so the record is clear.
17             MR. KRAMER:  Yes.  I'm going to be talking
18        calendar day --
19             MR. MOORE:  That's fine.
20             MR. KRAMER:  Unless noted otherwise.
21   BY MR. KRAMER:
22        Q    I'm sorry.  Just for the record, that's

                                                              79
 1   yes?
 2        A    Yes.
 3        Q    When did you first learn that the Senate
 4   had adjourned that day?
 5        A    When did I --
 6        Q    First learn about the adjournment?
 7        A    I don't know.  When the doors to the
 8   Senate opened.  When they're not in session, the
 9   doors open to the chamber.  And that's how I
10   would -- no, I don't.  I don't know what time it
11   was.  I had no clue.
12        Q    Have you had any occasion to review the
13   Senate journal proceedings?
14        A    No.
15        Q    If the senate journal of proceedings --
16   and, Counsel, Exhibit AA -- were to indicate -- if
17   the Senate journal of appropriations were to
18   indicate that on -- and this is Exhibit X.  I
19   apologize, Counsel -- that on Friday, November 9,
20   2007, the Senate adjourned at 1:59 p.m. to resume on
21   Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, would you have any
22   reason to doubt that fact?

                                                              80
 1        A    I don't know anything about the Senate,
 2   what they put in journals.
 3        Q    Do you recall when on Friday, November 9,
 4   the House convened?
 5        A    I have no clue.  Many times, we were
 6   scheduled to meet say at 1:00 o'clock and never
 7   convened until 7:00 or so.
 8        Q    Do you recall that the House convened on
 9   Friday, November 9th, after the Senate had already
10   adjourned?
11        A    I have no clue.
12             MR. KRAMER:  Let me show you what has been
13        marked as Exhibit Y in this case.  And for the
14        record, Counsel, this is the House journal for
15        proceedings Number 5, calendar day, Friday,
16        November 9, 2007.
17   BY MR. KRAMER:
18        Q    It's 22 pages in length, and it indicated
19   that the House met at 4:42 p.m. and pledged
20   allegiance to the flag.  Do you see that?
21        A    Yes.
22        Q    So, if the Senate had adjourned at

                                                              81
 1   1:59 p.m., those doors to the Senate would be opened
 2   by the time the House commenced its proceedings that
 3   day, correct?
 4        A    Uh-huh.
 5        Q    Is that yes?
 6        A    Yes.  Do you want a new stapler?  This one
 7   is --
 8        Q    It would be nice.  On November 9th, 2007,
 9   did you receive any adjournment message from the
10   Senate?
11        A    No.
12        Q    Did you ever receive an adjournment
13   message from the Senate?
14        A    Yes.
15        Q    When?
16        A    I actually wasn't in the office on the
17   12th, Monday the 12th.  I was home sick.
18        Q    Is it your understanding that the House
19   received an adjournment message from the Senate on
20   Monday, November 12?
21        A    Yes.
22        Q    And how do you have that understanding?

                                                              82
 1        A    How do I have it?
 2        Q    Yes.  What do you base that understanding
 3   on?
 4        A    You've got it right here.
 5        Q    Okay.  Are you referring to Exhibit W,
 6   message to the House of Delegates?  Let me hand that
 7   to you and ask when that's dated?
 8        A    It is dated November 9, 2007.
 9        Q    And you did not receive that on
10   November 9 --
11        A    -- no, I did not.
12        Q    -- when the House convened, correct?
13        A    Did not.
14        Q    Did the House remain in session through
15   the weekend?
16        A    I don't remember.  Ask -- I mean, I really
17   don't remember.
18        Q    Do you know if the House was in session on
19   Saturday the 10th?
20        A    I don't know.
21        Q    Well, did you miss any weekend days of the
22   session due to illness?

                                                              83
 1        A    No.
 2        Q    Do you recall receiving Exhibit W on the
 3   weekend?  Were you present --
 4        A    No.  I said no already.
 5        Q    Do you have any understanding as to why a
 6   message dated November 9, 2007 on Friday was not
 7   received by the House until Monday the 12th?
 8        A    Repeat that, please.
 9        Q    Do you have any understanding as to why a
10   November 9, 2007 message to the House of Delegates
11   from the Senate was not actually received in the
12   House until November 12, 2007, three days later?
13        A    Do I know why?  I really don't understand
14   the question.
15        Q    Do you know why?
16        A    Could you repeat in a different way?
17        Q    What didn't you understand?
18        A    I can't remember the question right now.
19        Q    Okay.  Do you know why a message to the
20   House of Delegates dated November 9, 2007 was not
21   received by the House until Monday November 12th?
22        A    Yes.

                                                              84
 1        Q    Why?
 2        A    It was created on the 12th.
 3        Q    So, the date on Exhibit W is not accurate?
 4             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 5        A    Well, it's not the 12th.
 6        Q    And how do you know it was created on the
 7   12th?
 8        A    How do I know?  That's easy.  I was
 9   instructed by the Secretary of the Senate to create
10   the letter.
11        Q    Let me see if I understand this correctly.
12        A    Uh-huh.
13        Q    The Secretary of the Senate -- and that
14   will be William Addison?
15        A    B. C. Addison.
16        Q    Instructed you to create Exhibit W?
17             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
18        Q    I'm just -- I'm not --
19        A    Yes.
20        Q    Is that right?  All right.  Well, let me
21   make sure I really understand this.  So, let's just
22   take it slow, if we could.

                                                              85
 1        Exhibit W is a message to the House of Delegates
 2   dated November 9, 2007 which you indicate was actually
 3   created on the 12th, correct?
 4        A    Yes.  I've answered that.
 5        Q    And it says, "By order, William B.C.
 6   Addison, Jr., Secretary," correct?
 7        A    Yes.
 8        Q    Who created this letter?
 9        A    The Clerk's Office.
10        Q    Your office?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    This is on letterhead of the Senate of
13   Maryland, correct?
14        A    Correct.  With their expressed authority.
15        Q    The Secretary of the Senate is your
16   counterpart on the Senate side; is that accurate?
17        A    Right.
18        Q    So, he basically performs the same
19   functions as the Chief Clerk of the House only for
20   the senate, correct?
21        A    Supposedly.
22        Q    What do you mean supposedly?

                                                              86
 1        A    We're very professional in the Clerk's
 2   Office.
 3        Q    And when did Mr. Addison request that the
 4   Clerk's Office and the House create Exhibit W, which
 5   purports to be a message to the House of Delegates?
 6        A    When did he?
 7        Q    Yes.
 8        A    On the 12th.
 9        Q    Did he converse with you?
10        A    On the telephone, yes.
11        Q    So, you were at home sick?
12        A    No.  I was at work sick.
13        Q    Well, I apologize.
14        A    I'm dedicated.
15        Q    And I understand that.  That's never been
16   a question in this case.  My question is what time
17   of day?
18        A    I don't remember.
19        Q    Morning?  Afternoon?
20        A    It was light out.
21        Q    Do you recall when you left work that day
22   that might ring a bell?

                                                              87
 1        A    I wasn't there for session.  I probably
 2   went home around 5:00 or 6:00, because session, I
 3   believe, was at 7:00 that night.  I'm not sure.
 4        Q    And the instruction to prepare this letter
 5   was conveyed by telephone?
 6        A    Correct.
 7        Q    Were you at your office in the State House
 8   when you received that call?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    Do you know where Mr. Addison was calling
11   from?
12        A    I'm assuming it was his home.
13        Q    And how long were you on the phone with
14   him for?
15        A    Which time?
16        Q    Okay.  How many times did you speak with
17   him that day?
18        A    Twice.
19        Q    Let's take the first call.  How long was
20   it?
21        A    I don't know.  20 minutes.
22        Q    What did he say to you?

                                                              88
 1        A    He said that Vicky Brettwell -- no.
 2   What's her name -- Guber -- called him and said the
 3   President of the Senate didn't want to come back
 4   until Thursday because the Senate has no work to do,
 5   and asked if I would talk with the speaker and to
 6   see how they wanted to handle that.  I told them I
 7   would call him back.
 8        Q    Who is Vicky Budwell?
 9        A    No.  It's Guber.  She's counsel to the
10   president.
11        Q    Which would be Senator Miller?
12        A    Right.
13        Q    And in that first conversation, did he ask
14   you to do something?
15        A    He asked me to check with the speaker.
16        Q    About what?
17        A    About what to do.
18        Q    About what to do about what?
19        A    About the president not wanting to have
20   the Senate come back.
21        Q    Why would -- if I may, did he explain to
22   you or did you have an understanding as to why the

                                                              89
 1   request on what the Senate would do required a call
 2   to you or a conversation with the speaker?
 3        A    I don't know what you mean.
 4        Q    Okay.  In other words, you don't dictate
 5   how the Senate handles its business, correct?
 6        A    No.
 7        Q    You worry about the House business, right?
 8        A    Well, I worry about the Senate, too, and
 9   that's part of my job.
10        Q    Insofar as it impacts the House function?
11        A    Right.
12        Q    What is your understanding as to why a
13   call was made to you on the House side that involved
14   what the Senate does in terms of its adjournment?
15        A    I don't know why Billy called me.
16        Q    Did he explain?
17        A    No.
18        Q    Did you ask, "Well, what do you want us to
19   do about it?"
20        A    No.  I just told him I would check with
21   the speaker and get back to him.  It was short and
22   sweet.

                                                              90
 1        Q    And what specifically did he want you to
 2   check with the speaker about?
 3        A    What was the House's position.
 4        Q    On?
 5        A    On what he was calling me about.
 6        Q    Whether to consent to a longer
 7   adjournment?
 8        A    Yes.
 9        Q    Did you indicate to him that you would
10   consult with the speaker and get back with him?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    Did you?
13        A    Yes.
14        Q    Did you visit with the speaker in person?
15        A    He was running in and out that day.  I
16   talked to one of his counsel, Christian Jones, and I
17   gave her a copy of the House Rule Book, Page 80.
18   And I said, "Please read this carefully.  This is
19   what the Senate wants to do.  I'm sick.  They didn't
20   want me in their office, and they told me to go back
21   to my office."
22        Q    And if I'm correct, the House Rule Book,

                                                              91
 1   Page 80, speaks to a paragraph entitled
 2   "Adjournment," and it is a recitation of Article 3,
 3   Section 25 of the constitution?
 4        A    Correct.  I wanted them to have it in
 5   their hands, discuss it, and get back to me on what
 6   I was to do.
 7        Q    You did have a conversation directly with
 8   the speaker correct about this?
 9        A    I don't remember.
10   
11   BY MR. KRAMER:
12        Q    You did have a conversation directly with
13   the speaker, correct, about this?
14        A    I don't remember.
15        Q    You don't remember?
16        A    No.  I really don't.  I was sick.  I had a
17   fever.  I was really sick.
18        Q    If the Speaker were to indicate that you
19   did discuss it with him directly, would you have any
20   reason to doubt that?
21        A    If that's what he said, then I probably
22   did.  I don't remember.  I really was quite dizzy in

                                                              92
 1   the bathroom a lot and high fever.
 2        Q    How long were you at work that day?
 3        A    I don't know.  Probably three, four, five
 4   hours, six hours.
 5        Q    Did you seek the assistance of any doctor
 6   on staff at the House?
 7             MR. MOORE:  I'm sorry?  Any what?  I'm sorry.
 8             THE WITNESS:  Any doctor.
 9   BY MR. KRAMER:
10        Q    Is there a physician that's on/staff at
11   the State House?
12        A    There's a doctor of the day.  Whether or
13   not they have them during the special session, I'm
14   not sure.
15        Q    Did you ask to see that doctor?
16        A    No.  You just walk downstairs.
17        Q    Did you?
18        A    No.  I didn't even consider it.  It never
19   occurred to me.  I told you I was sick.
20        Q    Isn't that what doctors are for?
21             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
22        A    I don't want to answer that.

                                                              93
 1             MR. THOMPSON:  If you know of any miracle
 2        cure of fever --
 3             MR. KRAMER:  No.  Right now, I'm just trying
 4        to cure memory loss.
 5             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 6   BY MR. KRAMER:
 7        Q    Were you provided instructions from the
 8   Speaker's Office as to what to do?
 9        A    Yes.
10        Q    And what instructions did the Speaker's
11   Office provide you?
12        A    That the speaker had no problem at all
13   with the Senate not coming back and to prepare
14   whatever messages were necessary.
15        Q    And did you indicate that you were being
16   asked to prepare a message to the House of Delegates
17   purporting to have come from the Senate of Maryland?
18        A    I had the authority of the Secretary of
19   the Senate to, yes, produce a message.
20        Q    How often in your tenure as Chief Clerk or
21   as a member of the Clerk's Office in the House of
22   Delegates have you had occasion to prepare a letter

                                                              94
 1   purporting to come from the other House?
 2        A    I don't remember, but there are many,
 3   many, many times that the Secretary of the Senate
 4   will give me keys to his safe, with the original
 5   Senate bills for me to put in original House bills
 6   or whatever after we pass them because they didn't
 7   want to stay late and get the bills in person.  So,
 8   I would have access to his safe at almost all times.
 9        Q    Did you express any concerns about
10   preparing Exhibit W insofar as it purports to come
11   from the Secretary of the Senate on Senate
12   letterhead by the majority leader of the Senate?
13        Did you express any concerns that you were being
14   asked to prepare that letter as if it came from the
15   Senate?
16        A    The long and short of it is Billy didn't
17   want to drive into the State House.  And he said,
18   "You have my permission to go in my office, get my
19   official letterhead and prepare a message."
20        Q    Did you ever speak to the majority leader
21   of the Senate?
22        A    I don't even know who it is.

                                                              95
 1        Q    Do you know whether there was anyone
 2   present in the Senate Secretary's Office?
 3        A    No.  There was no one there.
 4        Q    And where would Mr. Addison be coming
 5   from, to your knowledge, had he --
 6        A    Somewhere in Prince George's County, Upper
 7   Marlboro or something, way down on 301.  Someplace
 8   down there.
 9        Q    Do you know whether he had any assistants
10   that lived closer to --
11        A    I don't know where his staff lives.
12        Q    Did you inquire of that to see if someone
13   who truly did work for the Senate would be preparing
14   the Senate's message?
15        A    No, I did not.
16        Q    Why not?
17        A    I didn't think about it.  I told you I was
18   sick.
19        Q    Did you make a record anywhere, either in
20   House logs, or the house journal, confirming that
21   Exhibit W, which purports to be a November 9, 2007
22   message to the House of Delegates and prepared by

                                                              96
 1   the Secretary of the Senate was actually prepared by
 2   the Chief Clerk of the House of Delegates on
 3   November 12, 2007?
 4        A    I guess you could go in the computer and
 5   look at the date stamp.
 6        Q    Is that published anywhere?
 7        A    No.  It's on our computers.
 8        Q    Do you know if the majority leader --
 9        A    I have no clue about the majority leader.
10        Q    Well, let me ask the question first
11   though.  I'd appreciate it.
12        The question is do you know if the majority leader
13   of the Senate had any knowledge of this purported
14   November 9, 2007 message to the House of Delegates?
15        A    I have no idea.
16        Q    You never spoke with him?
17        A    I don't know who he is or she is.  I worry
18   about the House.
19        Q    Why did you date Exhibit W November 9,
20   2007 if you were preparing it on November 12th?
21        A    I had gone home.  I had my assistant clerk
22   come into the office early, and I told her what was

                                                              97
 1   going on.  I told her to prepare the messages, and
 2   here was the Senate's stationery, go research in the
 3   journal what the letters are to say.  And then I
 4   went to bed.
 5        And I got a call from her a couple of hours later,
 6   stating -- asking what dates to be put on the letters.
 7   And I said, "Well, absolutely, the House should be today,
 8   but I don't know about the Senate," and I suggest asking
 9   counsel what to put on.
10        Q    Counsel from the Attorney General's
11   Office?
12        A    No.  From the Speaker's Office.
13        Q    Does the Speaker have --
14        A    Specifically, Christian Jones.
15        Q    But who is your clerk that called you?
16   What's the name of that person that called you and
17   said that she prepared it?
18        A    Colleen Cassidy.
19        Q    What's her position with your office?
20        A    She's the Assistant Chief Clerk.
21        Q    Second in command, basically?
22        A    No.  Not necessarily.

                                                              98
 1        Q    So, why would there be an issue?  I mean
 2   you indicate that if the message actually bears
 3   House of Delegates' letterhead had to be Monday,
 4   November 12th, because it was indeed prepared that
 5   day?
 6        A    Yeah.
 7        Q    Why wouldn't the same be true for Exhibit
 8   W?
 9        A    I don't know.
10        Q    What do you mean you don't know?
11        A    I don't know.
12        Q    Well, it's your job as a Chief Clerk; is
13   it not --
14        A    I told my staff to ask counsel what date
15   to put on the message from the Senate.
16        Q    So, taking direction from the Speaker's
17   Office?
18        A    A legal person with all the hours here of
19   people being lawyers, yeah, I wanted a legal
20   question.
21        Q    A legal question as to whether it was okay
22   to backdate a letter?

                                                              99
 1             MR. MOORE:  Objection as to the
 2        characterization.
 3        Q    Okay.  How would you characterize it?
 4        A    What?
 5        Q    This is a backdated letter, isn't it,
 6   Exhibit W?
 7             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 8        A    Yeah.
 9        Q    So, you were asking for direction from the
10   Speaker's lawyer?
11        A    Uh-huh.
12        Q    As to whether it was okay to backdate?
13        A    No.  What dates to put on the letter.
14   What date.
15        Q    Why would there be an issue as to what
16   date to put on the letter?
17        A    Well, the Senate adjourned on the 9th, and
18   the Monday was the 12th.  Does the 9th go on or does
19   the 12th go on?  And I didn't want to get involved
20   in that.
21        Q    Why not?
22        A    I was sick.

                                                             100
 1        Q    Otherwise, you would have gotten involved?
 2        A    Yeah.  I would have.
 3        Q    Why?
 4        A    I wouldn't have backdated it.
 5        Q    Because as Chief Clerk, it is your
 6   responsibility to make sure that the record is kept
 7   accurately?
 8        A    Correct.
 9        Q    Because as Chief Clerk, it is your
10   responsibility to make sure that the record is kept
11   accurately?
12        A    Correct.
13        Q    Why then would you have your assistant
14   chief clerk ask the Speaker's Office for direction
15   as to whether this should be backdated?
16             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
17        A    I've answered that already.
18        Q    What is the answer?
19        A    The answer was I was sick.  I wasn't
20   feeling well.  My judgment was impaired.
21        Q    In retrospect --
22        A    Yes.

                                                             101
 1        Q    -- was an error in judgment to do this?
 2             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  It calls for an
 3        opinion.
 4             MR. KRAMER:  I'm asking for your opinion.
 5             MR. THOMPSON:  Can I ask for a clarification?
 6             MR. KRAMER:  I'll rephrase it, Counsel.
 7        Actually, Madam Reporter, can you please read back
 8        the testimony?  I don't want to go just on my
 9        memory.  I want to hear what you said.
10        (Question read back).
11   BY MR. KRAMER:
12        Q    When you say your judgment was impaired,
13   what do you mean?
14        A    Have you ever had a 24-hour flu bug with
15   high fever, dizzy to the point that I almost called
16   911?
17        Q    But you didn't think to consult with the
18   State House doctor?
19        A    Which there probably wasn't a doctor.  I
20   don't know.  I don't know if there was a doctor.
21        Q    And, so, being that you were sick, you
22   deferred to the speaker for when this should be

                                                             102
 1   dated?
 2        A    No.  Not the Speaker.  The Speaker's legal
 3   counsel.
 4        Q    What's the name of that person?
 5        A    Christian Jones.
 6        Q    Did you speak with Christian Jones?
 7        A    No, I did not.
 8        Q    Is Christian Jones a member of the
 9   Attorney General's office?
10        A    No.  She is not.
11        Q    Did you have any conversations that day
12   with any member of the Attorney General's office?
13        A    I don't believe so.
14        Q    Prior to the sine die adjournment of the
15   legislature for the special session of 2007, did you
16   have any occasion to discuss this issue with anyone
17   at the Attorney General's Office?
18        A    I don't recall.  I did talk to Bob Zarnoch
19   when he asked that copies of the letter be faxed to
20   his office.
21        Q    And what was the nature of that
22   conversation?  Just to fax it over?

                                                             103
 1        A    Yeah.
 2        Q    When did that request come in?
 3        A    I don't know.  The next day.
 4        Q    Were you working the next day?
 5        A    Yes, I was.
 6        Q    Did you show up to work at the beginning
 7   of the work day?
 8        A    I don't know when we had adjourned to.
 9   During the special session, to let you know, I
10   staggered my office staff so that people with kids
11   and family could do laundry and grocery shop because
12   we spent long, long, long hours.
13        Q    Certainly.
14        A    So, I don't know who came in at what time
15   on what day.
16        Q    It's your understanding that on
17   November 9, 2007, the Senate did not intend to
18   adjourn until Thursday, November 15; is that
19   correct?
20             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
21        A    I don't know what the Senate intended to
22   do.

                                                             104
 1        Q    Well, do you know -- well, would it be
 2   correct that the contents of Exhibit W stating that
 3   it's the intention of the Senate to adjourn until
 4   Thursday, November 15th, and purporting to have that
 5   intention on November 9th was inconsistent with what
 6   Mr. Addison told you on the telephone?
 7             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 8        A    Yeah.  What are you asking?  I don't
 9   understand.
10        Q    Well, Mr. Addison told you before you
11   prepared Exhibit W that the Senate president decided
12   that day, November 12th, that Monday, to extend the
13   adjournment, correct?
14        A    Uh-huh.
15             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Mischaracterizes
16        earlier testimony.
17        Q    Well, is that a characterization of your
18   earlier testimony?
19        A    Your questions are rambling right now.
20   Could they be a little more precise so I can
21   understand what you're trying to get.
22        Q    I'm not sure how more precise I can be,

                                                             105
 1   but it's my understanding -- and let's take it step
 2   by step.
 3        You testified that the Secretary of the Senate, your
 4   counterpart on the other House --
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    -- telephoned you on Monday, November the
 7   12th, 2007?
 8        A    Correct.
 9        Q    And in that telephone conversation, you
10   testified that Mr. Addison informed you that the
11   Senate President, Mike Miller, decided to extend
12   their adjournment to Thursday, November 15th; is
13   that correct?
14             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Mischaracterizes
15        earlier testimony.
16             MR. KRAMER:  Thanks for the coaching,
17        Counsel.
18   BY MR. KRAMER:
19        Q    Is that correct?
20             MR. MOORE:  Counsel, that's not coaching.  I
21        would ask you to keep your comments to questions.
22        A    No.  I did not say the president.  I said

                                                             106
 1   the president's attorney, Vicky, had called Billy.
 2   I didn't say Billy had talked to the president.
 3        Q    Okay.  Fine.  Then in your own words, what
 4   did Mr. Addison -- who goes by Billy?
 5        A    Uh-huh.
 6        Q    Is that yes?
 7        A    Yes, it is.
 8        Q    What did he tell you about any change in
 9   plans, visa vi the Senate's adjournment, in that
10   conversation, that first conversation on
11   November 12th?
12             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
13        A    I've already answered that.
14        Q    Well, what's the answer?
15             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
16             MR. KRAMER:  Are you instructing her not to
17        answer?
18             MR. MOORE:  I'm not.  I'm simply noting an
19        objection.  I can note an objection.
20             THE WITNESS:  No.  She can read it back.
21   BY MR. KRAMER:
22        Q    I'm asking you.  You want me to be

                                                             107
 1   precise, as you say, in my questioning.  I'm trying
 2   to take this step by step.
 3        A    You have asked that question, and I have
 4   already answered it.
 5        Q    It's your understanding that a decision
 6   was made on the Senate side on November 12th to
 7   prolong the adjournment of the Senate; isn't that
 8   connect, from your conversation with --
 9        A    That is correct.
10        Q    So, it's also your understanding that the
11   contents of Exhibit W, which state that on
12   November 9, 2007, the Senate intended to adjourn to
13   Thursday, November 15th is not accurate?
14        A    Well, would you repeat that again?  I'm
15   sorry.  I was drinking water.
16        Q    Certainly.
17        A    Thank you.
18        Q    So, it's also your understanding that the
19   contents of Exhibit W, which state that on
20   November 9, 2007, it was the Senate's intention to
21   adjourn to Thursday, November 15th was inaccurate?
22        A    Tuesday, the 13th?

                                                             108
 1        Q    Thursday, November 15th.
 2        A    I'm sorry.  I'm just really not getting
 3   the question.
 4        Q    Well, let me ask you to read -- why don't
 5   you read aloud the November 9 or what evidently was
 6   backdated as the November 9, 2007 letter marked as
 7   Exhibit W?
 8             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 9        A    "It is the intention of the Senate to
10   adjourn until Thursday, November 15, 2007.  If the
11   House consent, the Senate will adjourn until
12   Thursday, November 15th, 2007."
13        Q    It's your understanding, based upon your
14   communications, on November 12th, 2007, that that
15   intention was not a November 9th intention but a
16   November 12th intention?
17        A    Correct.
18        Q    Thank you.  And the House was in session
19   on November 12th?
20        A    I believe they went in at 7:00 o'clock or
21   close to p.m.
22        Q    P.M.  And you were not present then?

                                                             109
 1        A    I was not present.  It was going to be a
 2   five-minute session, and I couldn't see infecting
 3   other people.
 4        Q    Do you know whether Exhibit W was read
 5   across the desk?
 6        A    No.  It was not.
 7        Q    And how do you know that?
 8        A    I instructed my staff not to.
 9        Q    Why did you do that?
10        A    I just wanted it in the journal.
11        Q    Why did you want it in the journal but not
12   read to members of the House to inform them of this
13   purported November 9, 2007 letter?
14        A    I just wanted it journalized.
15        Q    Well, am I correct that this Exhibit W,
16   which you prepared in the name of the Senate, asks
17   for the House's consent to adjourn to Thursday,
18   November 15th?
19             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  A couple of things,
20        Counsel.  First of all, I think you just said the
21        House's consent?
22             MR. KRAMER:  Yes.

                                                             110
 1             THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 2             MR. MOORE:  But you also said that she
 3        prepared it?  Is that what you meant to ask?
 4             MR. KRAMER:  She's testified that she
 5        prepared it.
 6             MR. MOORE:  I think you're mischaracterizing
 7        her earlier testimony.  I think she testified that
 8        she had it prepared.
 9   BY MR. KRAMER:
10        Q    It was prepared under your direction?
11        A    Yes.
12        Q    You didn't physically type it, correct?
13        A    No.
14        Q    But you knew about it and the contents of
15   it?
16        A    Yes.
17             MR. KRAMER:  Thank you, Counsel.
18   BY MR. KRAMER:
19        Q    So, this Exhibit W, prepared per your
20   instructions --
21        A    Uh-huh.
22        Q    -- one moment, ma'am.  I'm trying to

                                                             111
 1   figure this out.  I'm having a hard time.
 2             MR. MOORE:  Do you need a recess, Counsel?
 3             MR. KRAMER:  No.
 4   BY MR. KRAMER:
 5        Q    All right.  Let me ask it this way.  If
 6   Exhibit W purports to be a message from the Senate
 7   to the House asking for the House's consent to
 8   something, why would you instruct that it not be
 9   read to the House?
10        A    I don't know.
11        Q    What do you mean you don't know?
12        A    It just seemed like the thing to do at
13   that time.
14        Q    Why did it seem like the thing to do at
15   the time?
16        A    I was sick -- and we've discussed this
17   before -- I wasn't thinking correctly, and I wanted
18   it journalized.
19        Q    I can understand why you might want it
20   journalized.  What I'm interested in is --
21        A    I wanted it in the journal.
22        Q    -- why did you want it not to be read?

                                                             112
 1             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 2        A    I don't remember.
 3        Q    Did anyone from the Speaker's Office ask
 4   you not to have it read?
 5        A    No.  Remember, I was not there.
 6        Q    But you testified that you instructed them
 7   not to read it?
 8        A    I instructed my staff not to.  I didn't
 9   instruct the Speaker's Office.
10        Q    Because your job is not to instruct the
11   Speaker, correct?
12        A    I instruct him in a lot of areas.  Yes, I
13   do.
14        Q    As to proper procedure?
15        A    Same way I do with the minority leader.
16        Q    When there's a question of process?
17        A    Absolutely.  They know that they can come
18   in my office, close the door, and it will stay
19   behind closed doors -- the minority.
20        Q    Is it your understanding that as Chief
21   Clerk, you are to take instruction from the Speaker
22   of the House?

                                                             113
 1        A    I take instruction to a point.  When I
 2   disagree with him I will tell him on no uncertain
 3   terms.
 4        Q    If the Speaker of the House or a member of
 5   his staff asked you to create a letter with dates
 6   that were not true on letterhead that wasn't house
 7   letterhead, is that something that as Chief Clerk,
 8   you feel empowered to do?
 9             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Calls for
10        speculation.
11             MR. KRAMER:  It doesn't.  It's actually
12        consistent with the facts of this case, Counsel.
13             MR. MOORE:  I disagree.
14             MR. KRAMER:  Okay.  Well, we'll agree to
15        disagree on that.
16             MR. MOORE:  Stands as a speculative question.
17             MR. KRAMER:  Okay.  Speculative.
18   BY MR. KRAMER:
19        Q    Isn't that exactly what happened here?
20        A    No.  You're twisting my words.
21        Q    Well, tell me how I'm twisting your words.
22             MR. MOORE:  Counsel.  Counsel, can you slow

                                                             114
 1        down?
 2             MR. KRAMER:  No.
 3   BY MR. KRAMER:
 4        Q    Tell me how I'm switching your words.
 5             MR. MOORE:  Counsel, I'm just asking as to
 6        your tone in addressing the witness.
 7        Q    I'm asking how I'm twisting your words?
 8        A    I said I was instructed and authorized by
 9   the Secretary of the Senate, Billy B.C. Addison,
10   Jr., to create the documentation necessary because
11   he did not want to drive all the way to the State
12   House.
13        Q    Let me ask this.  Do you have the
14   authority to speak on behalf of the House of
15   Delegates?
16        A    I don't have any authority to speak on
17   behalf of the House.
18        Q    And given that Mr. Addison, the Secretary
19   of the Senate is essentially your counterpart,
20   trusted with basically the same authority, how is it
21   you could assume that he had the authority to speak
22   for the Senate?

                                                             115
 1             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Mischaracterizes.
 2        A    I don't know.  I wasn't in his house when
 3   he got a phone call.
 4        Q    Did the House of Delegates provide the
 5   consent requested in Exhibit W?
 6        A    What do you mean?
 7        Q    Did the House of Delegates -- Exhibit W
 8   asks for -- says, "If the House consents, the Senate
 9   will adjourn until Thursday, November 15th, 2007."
10   What did the House do in relation to this letter?
11        A    They consented.
12        Q    How?
13        A    By message.
14             MR. KRAMER:  Let me show you what has been
15        marked as Exhibit FF.  For the record, Counsel, it
16        is dated November 12, 2007.  It is on Maryland
17        House of Delegates letterhead, message to the
18        Senate, and it bears the name of Mary Monahan,
19        Chief Clerk, under the words "by order."
20             MR. MOORE:  And this is Exhibit F from your
21        filing with the Court --
22             MR. KRAMER:  FF.

                                                             116
 1             MR. MOORE:  FF from your filing with the
 2        Court of Appeals?
 3             MR. KRAMER:  Correct.  As I indicated, those
 4        are the designations.
 5             THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 6   BY MR. KRAMER:
 7        Q    Is that what purports to be the consent of
 8   the House?
 9        A    Correct.
10        Q    How was that prepared?
11        A    By the same person who prepared the first
12   one.
13        Q    At your instruction?
14        A    Yes.
15        Q    And this indicates that the message is by
16   the majority leader?
17        A    That's customary.  I don't know why.
18        Q    But it's not really by the majority
19   leader?
20        A    No.  Nothing is.
21        Q    Who is it that provided this consent to
22   your knowledge?

                                                             117
 1        A    The House.
 2        Q    Was Exhibit FF read across the floor or
 3   read across the desk, as you say, to members of the
 4   House?
 5        A    No, it was not.
 6        Q    Why not?
 7        A    I instructed my staff not to.
 8        Q    Why?
 9             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
10        A    I've already answered that.
11        Q    No, we haven't.  We were talking about the
12   Exhibit --
13        A    W.
14        Q    -- the purported message from the Senate
15   dated November 9th.  That was Exhibit W.  Now, I'm
16   asking about Exhibit FF.
17        Why did you instruct your staff not to read Exhibit
18   FF across the desk?
19        A    It's the same answer as the other question
20   you asked.
21        Q    Well, let's have it as to Exhibit FF.
22   What's your answer?

                                                             118
 1        A    I didn't want it read across the desk.  I
 2   just wanted it put in the journal.
 3        Q    Why?
 4        A    Because we do a lot of things we put in
 5   the journal.
 6        Q    Let me hand you Exhibit FF.  Could you
 7   read Exhibit FF for us?
 8        A    "The House consents to the Senate
 9   adjourning until Thursday November 15th, 2007.
10        Q    It took you about five seconds; would you
11   agree?
12        A    Yeah.
13        Q    So, what would be the problem with doing
14   that on the floor of the House of Delegates?
15        A    I don't know.
16        Q    Well, why is it you didn't want it to be
17   done?
18        A    I don't recall.
19        Q    Well, so, if I'm -- let me see if I
20   understand this right.  If I am a member of the
21   House of Delegates, how would I know about the
22   Senate's request to adjourn to November 15th or the

                                                             119
 1   reply back providing that consent?  How would I know
 2   that as a regular member of the House of Delegates?
 3             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 4        A    I don't know.
 5        Q    Was there anything done, to your
 6   knowledge, that communicated these messages in some
 7   other way to members of the House?
 8        A    I don't know.
 9        Q    But by virtue of your order not to read
10   either message, would you agree that your office did
11   not take any steps to inform house members of this
12   issue?
13        A    What?
14        Q    Well, you actually took steps to insure
15   that House members didn't know about the request for
16   consent or the provision of consent; is that
17   correct?
18        A    I don't know what you're asking.
19        Q    Well, how would -- let's be very concrete.
20   How would Delegate Smigiel be or O'Donnell, who are
21   here at this deposition, by virtue of what you did
22   in saying it should be journalized but you didn't

                                                             120
 1   want it read, how would they know about Exhibit W or
 2   Exhibit FF?
 3             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 4        A    They would talk to their counterparts in
 5   the Senate.
 6        Q    Was the Senate in session on
 7   November 12th?
 8        A    They know what the telephone number is and
 9   how to reach their Senator.
10        Q    How would they know to ask about something
11   they weren't informed about by you?
12             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
13        A    I think the minority party was very much
14   aware of what the senators were doing in the House.
15        Q    Were they aware that you created Exhibit
16   W?  Did you tell them that?
17        A    I have no idea.
18        Q    Now, let's take a look at the journal --
19   now, let me ask you this.  So, there's -- Exhibit W
20   has some handwriting on it?
21        A    That's mine.
22        Q    That's your handwriting that says

                                                             121
 1   "journalized?"
 2        A    Yes.
 3        Q    And when did you write "journalized" on
 4   Exhibit W?
 5        A    On November 13th.
 6        Q    And is it customary for you to handwrite
 7   journalized on things that go in the journal?
 8        A    A lot of times I have, yes.
 9        Q    But in other instances you haven't?
10        A    Other instances, I haven't.
11        Q    Why did you write "journalize" on Exhibit
12   W the next day?
13        A    Because I wanted it journalized.
14        Q    Okay.  If you don't write the word
15   "journalized," it wouldn't go in?
16        A    I don't know.  I really don't know.
17        Q    Exhibit FF, the November 12, 2007 message
18   to the Senate, I see there's handwriting that says
19   "journalized" there?
20        A    Yes.
21        Q    Different from that appearing on Exhibit
22   W?

                                                             122
 1        A    Yeah.  That was someone else in my staff.
 2        Q    Do you know who?
 3        A    I believe it was Wendy, but I'm not sure.
 4        Q    Wendy's last name is what?
 5        A    Compton.
 6        Q    Her position is?
 7        A    Clerk.
 8             MR. KRAMER:  Bear with me a minute.  Let me
 9        show you -- I'll try the stapler again.  We'll
10        have better luck this time.  This is actually
11        Defendant's Exhibit Number 4, Counsel.  This is
12        from your petition or appended to your petition
13        for writ of certiorari to the Court of Appeals.
14        And for the record, that is House Journal for
15   Proceedings 8, calendar day, Monday, November 12, 2007.
16   And it's a copy of the pertinent Pages 1 of 42, 41 of 42
17   and 42 of 42.
18   BY MR. KRAMER:
19        Q    And directing your attention to the second
20   and third pages of Defense Exhibit 4, if I'm
21   correct, these were the actual journal entries in
22   connection with Exhibit W and Exhibit FF, correct?

                                                             123
 1        A    What was that again?  I'm sorry.
 2        Q    Sure.  We been reviewing Exhibit W, which
 3   is the purported November 9, 2007 message to the
 4   House that you prepared?
 5        A    Uh-huh.  Had prepared.
 6        Q    And Exhibit FF, the November 12 message to
 7   the Senate that your office prepared?
 8        A    Yes.
 9        Q    And what I'm asking is what you have in
10   front of you, Defense Exhibit 4, that's a copy of
11   the actual journal entries?
12        A    I assume so.  I don't know where you
13   got -- I mean, I assume that that's correct.
14        Q    Okay.  It looks like --
15        A    It looks like, yes.
16        Q    -- the journal, right?
17        A    Yes.
18        Q    And I'll observe that the message from the
19   Senate is marked journalized, correct?
20        A    Uh-huh.
21        Q    And it doesn't say "read and order
22   journalized" like a lot of them do when they're

                                                             124
 1   read, right?
 2        A    Right.
 3        Q    So, that also provides some further
 4   confirmation that it was journalized, but it wasn't
 5   read?
 6        A    Correct.
 7        Q    And the message to the Senate of
 8   November 12, 2007, which had been marked as Exhibit
 9   FF, that also bears the Chief Clerk's notation
10   journalized, correct?
11        A    Right.
12        Q    And unlike other outgoing messages that
13   would have been read and adopted by the House, it
14   does not say "read and adopted," correct?
15        A    What was that again?  I'm sorry.
16        Q    Sure.  You testified earlier, if I recall
17   correctly, that when a message goes to the Senate
18   that in instances where it's marked "read and
19   adopted," and that is the notation that accompanies
20   it into the journal of the House, correct?
21        A    That's the verbiage that comes up on the
22   computer automatically.

                                                             125
 1        Q    Right.  When something has been read and
 2   adopted?
 3             MR. MOORE:  Objection.
 4        Q    Well, let me ask you this way.  That's
 5   fine.  Let me help out.  So, automatically, what
 6   comes up on the computer for outgoing messages are
 7   the words "read and adopted?"
 8        A    No.  On actual messages, it says
 9   "adopted."  You're talking about journal verbiage as
10   compared to a regular message verbiage.  It's
11   different.
12        Q    Okay.  Help me out in understanding the
13   distinction.
14        A    On the regular message, if it was going to
15   be adopted prior to the message being read, it would
16   have a big adopted stamp on it with the date and my
17   signature.  So, it doesn't say "read and adopted"
18   for one thing.
19        Q    Because it wasn't read and adopted?
20        A    It doesn't matter.  This is what goes on
21   all messages.
22        Q    What is what goes on all messages?

                                                             126
 1        A    The adopted stamp with my name and date.
 2        Q    So, you agree, of course, that Exhibit FF
 3   does not have a stamp with your name and date saying
 4   "adopted?"
 5        A    I didn't want to adopt them.
 6        Q    Why?
 7        A    I was sick.  I felt that was best way to
 8   go at the time.
 9        Q    What does the adopted stamp signify when
10   it's used?
11        A    It's customary that we adopt messages, and
12   it's all predone before they're ever read across the
13   desk.  It's like opening orders.  We already adopt
14   all of those before they're handed out to anyone.
15   It's how we do business.
16        Q    Having been with the Clerk's Office since
17   1972 -- of course, one brief interruption --
18        A    I still worked there every year for the
19   last couple of weeks.
20        Q    Okay.  Can you explain why a message that
21   would go from House to Senate would be adopted?
22        A    What?

                                                             127
 1        Q    Why would it be adopted?
 2        A    I don't know.  It's customary.
 3        Q    But you broke a custom in this instance;
 4   is that correct?
 5        A    Yes.
 6        Q    Why?
 7        A    I've told you.  I've answered that.
 8        Q    What's the answer?
 9        A    I was sick.  I was not feeling right, and
10   I thought that was the right thing to do.
11        Q    Well, the right thing to do was to break
12   from custom and do it different?
13        A    Apparently, I thought that.
14        Q    Well, help us out.  Why did you think
15   that?
16             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
17        A    You can only ask that question so many
18   times.
19        Q    Your answer is you were sick, and you just
20   what, made a mistake or what?
21        A    Yeah.  I'm human.
22        Q    So, because you were sick, you're

                                                             128
 1   testifying that under your instruction, Exhibit W, a
 2   letter purporting to be a message from the Senate of
 3   Maryland, was prepared by your office, correct?
 4        A    I've answered that a zillion times.
 5        Q    Is that right?
 6        A    Yes.
 7        Q    That under your instruction, because you
 8   were sick, it was backdated from November 12, 2007
 9   to November 9, 2007?
10             MR. MOORE:  Objection.  Mischaracterizes her
11        testimony.
12             THE WITNESS:  That's wrong.
13   BY MR. KRAMER:
14        Q    Oh, it's wrong.  Exhibit W, I thought you
15   testified, was prepared on November 12th?
16             MR. MOORE:  It's a different question,
17        Counsel.
18             THE WITNESS:  That is a totally different
19        question.
20             MR. KRAMER:  Oh, I'm sorry.  How am I
21        mistaken?  Help me out.
22             MR. MOORE:  Mistaken as to which, Counsel?  I

                                                             129
 1        don't understand the question.
 2             MR. KRAMER:  Of course, you don't.
 3             MR. MOORE:  Counsel, please as to your tone.
 4   BY MR. KRAMER:
 5        Q    Well, just correct me where I'm wrong,
 6   because I thought I heard it right, your testimo